| ETHANOL EFFECT [message #145462] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 09:09  |
Michael Bozardt
Messages: 367
Registered: January 2007
Location: College Station, Texas
Karma: 1
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Ethanol is not kind to older automotive systems. In my GMC motorhome, it has clogged the carburetor to the point where the engine would not start. Solution: the shop shot the carb with "Gumout" until the goo disappeared.
It has clogged two of three fuel filters. It may have destroyed the Onan fuel line fuel pump-to-carb, which cracked.
It loosens deposits in the fuel tank and is not compatable with original type rubber fuel lines.
A solution is to drop the fuel tanks, have them cleaned and replace all rubber fuel lines and vent hoses. You will need the following:
3 feet of 1/2 inch fuel line
24 feet of 3/8 inch fuel line
25 feet of 5/16 inch fuel line
10 feet of 1/4 inch fuel line SAE Spec R7
Part of this goes to the fuel cannister up front and some also goes to the Onan or Honda generator.
Use Stainless Steel clamps.
It is suggested to cut the fuel line before the fuel separator, connect a small electric fuel pump and pump the tanks dry before lowering. Fuel tanks weigh about 45 pounds each empty.
The information on replacing the fuel tanks is from an article on the net entitled "Fuel Tank and Exhaust"
http://users.california.com/~eagle/Fuel.html
I would add to check and perhaps replace the fuel sending units and/or the socks attached to the fuel sending units.
I will attempt to describe our experience doing this procedure as I am tired of ethanol problems, sputterig engines and clogged fuel filters. After this, the "Yellow Rose" will be for sale as we attempt to upgrade the Edgemonte to roadworthy standards and beyond...........Michael at GEMRECS
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| Re: ETHANOL EFFECT [message #145464 is a reply to message #145462] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 09:32  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Unfortunately, Michael is correct on the only real way to try to insure yourself against the effects of ethanol. Like any other solvent, it attacks components and residues that have been present for many years, and then these find areas to plug and we have to deal with the attendant problems.
When I first got my coach, dropping the tanks and replacing the fuel lines was one of the first things we did, as we have been blessed with ethanol in our fuel for quite a while. Even if you live in an area that still has real gasoline, traveling into ethanol laced areas will start the same process.
Perhaps with the government subsidies for ethanol production ending, we may see less of a push for ethanol, but with EPA mandates, don't count on it.
In a perfect world, would owners of vintage vehicles be allowed to purchase av-gas or some other non-ethanol laced fuel? Maybe we need to elect more legislators that are antique vehicle hobbyists!
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: ETHANOL EFFECT [message #145478 is a reply to message #145464] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 12:28 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Article in today's Washington Post, page e1, titled "U.S. may talk fruit and fiber, but it spends big on meat". Article was about G0vT farming subsidies. Interesting factoid, "About $12 billion went to crops that were turned into ethanol, as use that is consuming a growing share of the harvest."
A billion here, a billion there, and soon you are talking real money.
Tom Phipps,
MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: ETHANOL EFFECT [message #145485 is a reply to message #145462] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 14:35 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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I was involved with a discussion about our fine Ethenol fuels. They had nothing good to say about it.
The biggest complaint was loss of fuel mileage, about 50 miles per ave sized tank, and the additional polution that is put into the air by burning more fuel to get to the same place the non ethonized fuels do.
For Antique vehicles, if you were fueling as the ethonizing came about, most of the gunk was slowly diluted and burnt away. Only rubber and filter issues were evident.
If your Antique vehicle sits in the garage and you started buring the 15% Ethonal fuel, you can expect a large percentage of the liquified garbage that would normally be on the walls of your gas tank, to come down the fuel lines and start plugging filters, fuel pumps and carborators.
It seems if you take it on a little at a time, the system will clean out without too much trouble.
A rep in Florida is trying to repeal the law that makes florida have to use the Ethanized fuels siting it being a waste of food for starving people, fuel waster, major polutant and a destructive device against antique vehicles. I think I have that right. To say the least, he doesn't like it much and wants it gone.
It seems the facts are starting to come out but the EPA does not listen to facts, they seem to be listening to favors to our crooked politians. As I was once told, if you want to get rich, get into goverment.....
Nuf said....
Gatsbys' CRUISER  08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
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| Re: ETHANOL EFFECT [message #145501 is a reply to message #145462] |
Tue, 04 October 2011 17:32 |
winter
Messages: 247
Registered: September 2007
Location: MPLS MN
Karma: 0
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Pretty much every rubber part on my coach is not in its original shape. Nearly 40 years of time has made the rubber dried out and brittle. Synthetic materials have a finite life and need to be replaced after time.
Ethanol gets the blame for nearly every fuel related issue on this site. I'm not arguing for or against alternative fuels, but Ethanol may not always be the primary cause of failure of equipment more than 10 or 15 years old.
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Re: ETHANOL EFFECT [message #145625 is a reply to message #145501] |
Wed, 05 October 2011 12:43 |
Larry C
Messages: 1168
Registered: July 2004
Location: NE Illinois by the Illino...
Karma: 0
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Ethanol gets the blame for nearly every fuel related issue on this site. I'm not arguing for or against alternative fuels, but Ethanol may not always be the primary cause of failure of equipment more than 10 or 15 years old.
An observation I have made over the years concerning rubber had been age affect and heat affect.
when rubber AGES, you may see cracks where the rubber is attached to a fitting. Most of the rest of the hose may not show a sign of cracks or wear unless it is running against something.
I had a similar problem on the gas line, made of rubber, that was leaking. The truck was in storage for about 7 years and I brought it home. when I turned it off it had a gas oder. And if it sat a while it was terrible to start up. Once she started she PURRRRRED like a kitten. After that she started right up until she sat for a day or two.
We found a crack on the rubber above the gas tank. You may be thinking, wait, the gas lines are metal. Yes they were, the gas tank was replaced some years back and it was connected with rubber hose to the lines. These cracks were on the hose near the fitting attachments. It does not look like Ethynal damage, but I can't rule it out completely.
HEAT damage take a different form. The rubber will bake until it loses the flex ability. It still remains fairly strong but movement can and will crack or even break it off at the crack.
ETHYNOL damage, that I have seen seems to make the hose soft, mushy. It extorts the interior of the hose, I have seen one that was blocked by hose debri.
Unless I am wrong, there seem to be definate damages determined by what causes them. The Ethynol damage seems to occur slowly with little or no warning to the vehicle owner.
I am told the newer hoses are supposed to be able to take the effects of the Ethy gas we use but I recently was told that the new hoses only hold up a bit longer and then will fail to Ethy in time. I am not sure if this part is true or not.
Just an Observation
Gatsbys' CRUISER 08-18-04
74 GLACIER X, 260/455-APC-4 Bagg'r
Remflex Manifold gaskets
CampGrounds needed, Add yours to "PLACES" />
http://www.gmceast.com/travel
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