Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » More new engine follies
| Re: More new engine follies [message #346316 is a reply to message #345331] |
Sat, 10 August 2019 12:59   |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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After some thought, it behaves like there's a restriction or blockage somewhere. Same time distance cruising it hits 220. I gave it an hour and drove it home watching the temp go up. It's boiling into the overflow, and sucking it back down, so the recovery system is working. Which means the cap is working, and that it boils right around 220 degrees means the same plus there's some glycol in it. It's what was taken out of the old engine, plus added as needed pure glycol. I shall attack in the morning with my temp gun and (probably) a new vocabulary. Brand new Cardone roller pump. New fan which at idle comes on properly driven by the injector. At idle, temp rises to set point, fan spools up, temp retreats. Just what you'd expect. This installation does not have an oil cooler - has OEM trans cooler. Radiator was recored about a year ago.
I'm open to ideas.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] More new engine follies [message #346319 is a reply to message #346316] |
Sat, 10 August 2019 14:56 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Did you check the thermostat ? It sounds as if the stat is not opening. Put it in a pan of water on the stove with a thermometer (even a candy thermometer will work. )
Make sure it opens before it boils.
Emery Stora
> On Aug 10, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
>
> After some thought, it behaves like there's a restriction or blockage somewhere. Same time distance cruising it hits 220. I gave it an hour and
> drove it home watching the temp go up. It's boiling into the overflow, and sucking it back down, so the recovery system is working. Which means the
> cap is working, and that it boils right around 220 degrees means the same plus there's some glycol in it. It's what was taken out of the old engine,
> plus added as needed pure glycol. I shall attack in the morning with my temp gun and (probably) a new vocabulary. Brand new Cardone roller pump.
> New fan which at idle comes on properly driven by the injector. At idle, temp rises to set point, fan spools up, temp retreats. Just what you'd
> expect. This installation does not have an oil cooler - has OEM trans cooler. Radiator was recored about a year ago.
>
> I'm open to ideas.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346321 is a reply to message #344042] |
Sat, 10 August 2019 17:04 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I fought a similar "running hot" issue for years.
Turned out the fan was bolted
To the fan clutch backward.
When i had the fan out when changing timing chain, i never took the two apart. Couple of fan clutch's was changed in coach and never took fan out. Went to install john B's fan, and realized all this time it was backwards.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346326 is a reply to message #344042] |
Sun, 11 August 2019 09:19 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Sprinter fan kit - won't go but one way. 'Stat removal is next.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346332 is a reply to message #346326] |
Sun, 11 August 2019 13:17 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Leaking head gasket between cooling system and and cylinder. Get a cooling system pressure tester and on a COLD engine pump it up and see if it holds pressure at around 7-9 psi. If it leaks down cold you have a cooling system leak which is probably a head gasket. It is an easy test to do.
It is just a guess but I have seen it several times.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346360 is a reply to message #344042] |
Mon, 12 August 2019 07:28 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I'll see if Advance has a loaner pressure tester. Thermostat test shows it works correctly, 180 and it's open. Strange looking 'stat, the outer cup retracts when it gets hot.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] More new engine follies [message #346362 is a reply to message #346360] |
Mon, 12 August 2019 08:31 |
powwerjon
Messages: 849
Registered: March 2013
Karma: -2
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Johnny,
Unsure on the type of thermostat that you are currently using, but if it is a stock style and not a Robertshaw High Performance type thermostat then you can be creating you own problems as a stock style thermostat does not flow enough coolant and are subject to failure, just ask Jim B.
By Stock thermostat I mean this type:
By Robertshaw High Performance I mean this type:
https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/gm8-006-14-180.htm
https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/gm8-006-14-195.htm
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-4364
Notice the difference in construction of the units. The stock style unit is limited on the amount of flow that it can pass. The amount of heat that needs to be removed by the coolant requires a higher performance type of thermostat, look at the size radiator that we have for heat rejection. I have included both the 180 and 195 thermostats as GMC owner have run both. I personally have run only the 180 degree unit over the last 19 years as my thoughts that I want to remove as much heat as I can with the 180 deg unit. Some with fuel injection may run the 195 deg unit.
The High Performance type thermostat are available at most auto part store.
I have presented the various information available and the choice is yours to make!
Regards,
J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
> On Aug 12, 2019, at 8:28 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
>
> I'll see if Advance has a loaner pressure tester. Thermostat test shows it works correctly, 180 and it's open. Strange looking 'stat, the outer cup
> retracts when it gets hot.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
>
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346365 is a reply to message #344042] |
Mon, 12 August 2019 09:56 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I found over the years that I am a proponent of a 195 thermostat. I feel it holds temp much more stable, and keeps moisture out of the oil. When running the 180 thermostat i found big swings on the temp gauge and the IR temp readings of the radiator higher. I think it adds strain on the cooling system to constantly try to maintain an engine temp 15 degrees cooler.
But i know plenty of gmc's who run the 180 thermostat.
One other thing to try is a flow test on the thermostaT. Ray E had a new thermostat that when the thermostat was closed. Water flowed through it easily. But his issue was opposite, his engine never got warm enough.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346373 is a reply to message #346360] |
Mon, 12 August 2019 11:49 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Do NOT buy one from Harbor Freight. They do not include the correct adapter for out radiator filler.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346382 is a reply to message #344042] |
Mon, 12 August 2019 16:26 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Triple check the cap. The outer seal is good as you have proven fluid leaves and returns. But it might not be holding any pressure. Usually the tiny spring on the poppet return valve has failed. Don't be fooled by the pressure tester tool. That usually puts the cap inverted during test and can give a false GOOD due to gravity. I just squeeze the upper hose cold and you can feel the valve close and offer resistance as a go/no go test.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
[Updated on: Mon, 12 August 2019 16:27] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346385 is a reply to message #346382] |
Mon, 12 August 2019 18:59 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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I am confused, I am sure Robert-Shaw is out of business and has been for a while. I was under the impression that the Mr. Gasket thermostat was making the Robert-Shaw style of thermostat and was the preferred thermostat. What did I miss?
JohnL455 wrote on Mon, 12 August 2019 17:26Triple check the cap. The outer seal is good as you have proven fluid leaves and returns. But it might not be holding any pressure. Usually the tiny spring on the poppet return valve has failed. Don't be fooled by the pressure tester tool. That usually puts the cap inverted during test and can give a false GOOD due to gravity. I just squeeze the upper hose cold and you can feel the valve close and offer resistance as a go/no go test.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346440 is a reply to message #344042] |
Wed, 14 August 2019 15:25 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I hied myself to Advance and borrowed their pressure test kit. Surprise, surprise, won't fit a GMC. The direct cap adapter is too small in diameter - I suspect it's to be used on newer cars with metric small caps..... the ears are a quarter of an inch too close together. The adapter which plugs into the cap hole and expands is too tall to fit. I am of the opinion that the radiator is going to have to come out, and if I can drop it enough without disconnecting the hoses, I can test ther system tomorrow as it comes out. Failing that it will be necessary to plug the upper hose and adapt the tester into the radiator opening with the cap in place. It's too dam' hot out to mess further with it right now, heat index is an even 100.
Getting the radiator full is going to be a problem.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] More new engine follies [message #346444 is a reply to message #346440] |
Wed, 14 August 2019 16:12 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Chuck,
The Flow Kooler is now the Robert Shaw and they do work better than the
other brands.
We sell and stock many of them, 180/195.
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 1:54 PM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> I hied myself to Advance and borrowed their pressure test kit. Surprise,
> surprise, won't fit a GMC. The direct cap adapter is too small in diameter
> - I suspect it's to be used on newer cars with metric small caps..... the
> ears are a quarter of an inch too close together. The adapter which plugs
> into the cap hole and expands is too tall to fit. I am of the opinion
> that the radiator is going to have to come out, and if I can drop it enough
> without disconnecting the hoses, I can test ther system tomorrow as it
> comes out. Failing that it will be necessary to plug the upper hose and
> adapt
> the tester into the radiator opening with the cap in place. It's too dam'
> hot out to mess further with it right now, heat index is an even 100.
>
> Getting the radiator full is going to be a problem.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346459 is a reply to message #346440] |
Wed, 14 August 2019 22:36 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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I have same problem with the Harbor Freight one. Here is what you can do. I will cost you a radiator cap. Take a cap and cut a slit on the bottom round rubber gasket so it can leak.
Install the modified cap. Then fashion an adapter from your pressure tester to the hose size of the over flow port on the filler. On the aluminum radiator the port screws screws in. Probably 1/4 pipe thread. I do not remember. On an OEM radiator you will have to remove the over flow hose and install your adapter hose with a small radiator clamp. Now pump it up through the over flow port and watch the pressure.
One time I had some kitchen matches around so I cut them to fit cross wise on top of the lip on the inside of the filler where the cap goes. That was enough to cause the desired leak so we did not have to cut the lower rubber gasket in the cap.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #346465 is a reply to message #344042] |
Thu, 15 August 2019 08:10 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Being it's Advance's tester not mine, I can't do anything which will change the tester components.
I'm waiting for some Applied parts anyhow, I'll hang till they get here. I'm in Dog Show Busy Season, so nothing is gonna happen very fast.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: More new engine follies [message #348380 is a reply to message #344042] |
Sun, 22 September 2019 13:43 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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ARRRGHHHHH! I am regarding the smoking hole in my foot. I caution folks, check the parts afore you install them. Took the radiator and had it cleaned and checked, mostly so the guy could run his hot fluid cleaner through the oil cooler in both directions. Filter cloth showed no metal particles either way, just a bit of carbon color at first which quickly came clean. So, ready to reassemble the thing, but I hadn't found a fault. I hate putting anything that busted back together till I know what busted... because it will likely do it again. Well, how 'bout the fan ass'y itself? It's Daimler-Benz, high quality control, etc. I don't know who their supplier is, but QC Inspector #4 can kiss my arse as the Brits say, since his stamp is on the clutch assembly. The clutch coil is open. So, off comes the adapter, the removed pieces go back on the shroud and the original fan and clutch go back on. Since I got the M-B one off the net many months ago, I don't think warranty is in order. New thermostat is being held in its package, the removed one opens regularly at 180 according to my IR thermometer. New steering pump works, and I now assume the new water pump works. I'll find out next week.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] More new engine follies [message #348405 is a reply to message #348380] |
Sun, 22 September 2019 19:41 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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Johnny:
In a couple of weeks there will be a lot of guys (and gals) who have all considered the smoking hole in their foot at a confab in Mansfield, Ohio.
Those who claim they have not are being less than candid.
Remind me to tell you about the first engine I built in three decades…..
Onward! You’ll get it.
Dolph
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
Howell EFI & EBL, Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission
“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress"
> On Sep 22, 2019, at 2:43 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
>
> ARRRGHHHHH! I am regarding the smoking hole in my foot. I caution folks, check the parts afore you install them. Took the radiator and had it
> cleaned and checked, mostly so the guy could run his hot fluid cleaner through the oil cooler in both directions. Filter cloth showed no metal
> particles either way, just a bit of carbon color at first which quickly came clean. So, ready to reassemble the thing, but I hadn't found a fault. I
> hate putting anything that busted back together till I know what busted... because it will likely do it again. Well, how 'bout the fan ass'y itself?
> It's Daimler-Benz, high quality control, etc. I don't know who their supplier is, but QC Inspector #4 can kiss my arse as the Brits say, since his
> stamp is on the clutch assembly. The clutch coil is open. So, off comes the adapter, the removed pieces go back on the shroud and the original fan
> and clutch go back on. Since I got the M-B one off the net many months ago, I don't think warranty is in order. New thermostat is being held in its
> package, the removed one opens regularly at 180 according to my IR thermometer. New steering pump works, and I now assume the new water pump works.
> I'll find out next week.
>
> --johnny
>
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
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