Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Jeep Cherokee as a Toad
| Re: Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195723 is a reply to message #195714] |
Wed, 16 January 2013 19:49   |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Mark,
It seems to me that it would be much simpler amd not much more expensive, to just go with the Tompkins stuff from Quadratec or some other supplier. They have the tow plate with a receiver if that's what you want, tow hook brackets to mount it on, and a tow bar, all made for the application.
If you want to go the route I went, you 'll be doing it the hard way. Nothing wrong with that, and you can save some money.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195732 is a reply to message #195671] |
Wed, 16 January 2013 21:45 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Granted the base 215 75 15s are a bit thin. I have 235 70 15 on the stock 15x7 aluminum 5 spokes. The 235 70 is a perfect fit on the 7 wide and looks and drives great though I don't off road.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195739 is a reply to message #195675] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 06:45 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I bought a 5,000 pound rated towbar off ebay for $50 including shipping. So far, it pulls everything I've put the clips on, and releases from the tow with two pins which are in shear when you're pulling. Total simplicity.
n.b. Be >very< careful what you attach the clips to, and be >very< careful to ensure the toad front frame will take the stress of being 'bounce' loaded suddenly. Ask me how I know this...
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 23' palm beach
'91 Jetta diesel toad currently having the front frame reworked.
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad
I pulled a Jeep CJ-7 for a few years but then found out our Jeep Grand Cherokee was about 300 pounds lighter so I switched to that. It had been towed coast to coast across the country three times and also up and down the mountains as we lived in Santa Fe. Initially we had a 3.07 final drive but when Jim Kanomata developed his 3.55 : 1 drive I installed that. It definitely made it easier to tow. I later bought a Geo Tracker and the difference in weight improved my mileage about 5-10%. You can tow a Cherokee but the lighter the toad, the better.
I used a Roadmaster Falcon towbar which is a motorhome mounted bar to the receiver I then switched to a Roadmaster Sterling which is easier to release the arms when unhooking.
You can sometimes find some good buys on EBay. I bought my Sterling there and the sold my Falcon there for more than I paid for the Sterling.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:05 AM, Mark <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>
> I've been exploring the wonderful world of toads lately, trying to work out the best option for "on-site transportation". I've been very happy with the GMC's ability to go anywhere a car will, but some of the plans we have would benefit greatly by having transportation that doesn't require tearing down the campsite every time we need a quart of milk...
>
> I'd seen a lot of Suzuki SUVs as toads - Samurais, Sidekicks and the equivalent Geo Tracker. When we lived in Australia, we had a Vitara JLX (equivalent to the Sidekick in the US), and it was a great little car. It had a full transfer case that could be switched to Neutral, would go almost anywhere (within reason), and got great gas mileage (high 20's).
>
> Then I started doing the research, and it appears I'd only save about 400 pounds swapping my trusty old 1996 Jeep Cherokee (XJ) 4x4, partially because it's a "stripper" (manual crank windows, two door, manual transmission). Plus, I'm getting 23-24mpg with it, I know the mechanical state it's in (a very, very well-maintained 220,000 miles), and it's paid for (many, many years ago). It'll also easily hold a couple bikes inside, and can carry big parts if something breaks on the GMC.
>
> http://www.habcycles.com/cherokee.jpg
>
> I'm not concerned about braking, since I have a VIP tow brake system on the way (one was installed in my coach, and I found a new, uninstalled system on Ebay for a fraction of the new price so I'd get the "car parts").
>
> So the questions:
> 1) Is the 3,050 pounds really much different than the 2,000 pounds of the lightest 4-seat toad I could possibly get?
> 2) Will there be any problems because my Jeep sits about 4" higher than stock (3" lift plus 31" tires)?
> 3) Is there really a big difference in tow bars? I can spend anywhere from $70 to $1000 for a tow bar, though I have to believe any of them are much more than up to the challenge of pulling a relatively light vehicle.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195752 is a reply to message #195732] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 09:46 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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| JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 16 January 2013 20:45 |
Granted the base 215 75 15s are a bit thin. I have 235 70 15 on the stock 15x7 aluminum 5 spokes. The 235 70 is a perfect fit on the 7 wide and looks and drives great though I don't off road.
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John, I think what I wrote probably came off wrong. My issue is that I use my Jeep "hard", and it just wasn't nearly up to the task as I bought it. I agree that smaller, thinner tires are just the ticket for better mileage and better towing though, especially with the 3.07 gears (though that's offset somewhat by the fact it's a 5-speed - but with the 31" tires, I'm turning just 2,000 rpm at almost 75mph).
I'm a bit anal (no surprise to anyone who knows me...) and really wanted to get the stance "just right", which included a set of 1.25" spacers to put the tires out by the edge of the fender flares. But that's not just for aesthetics, it also helps provide a more stable platform when you're on seriously off-camber surfaces (don't wanna see my Jeep with its wheels pointing toward the sky!). 
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195753 is a reply to message #195739] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 09:51 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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| Johnny Bridges wrote on Thu, 17 January 2013 05:45 |
I bought a 5,000 pound rated towbar off ebay for $50 including shipping. So far, it pulls everything I've put the clips on, and releases from the tow with two pins which are in shear when you're pulling. Total simplicity.
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Johnny, thanks for that. I've certainly been eyeing those adjustable tow bars on Ebay (and elsewhere - sometimes they are asking about triple what you paid though). It would certainly be my cheapest, easiest way out since all I'd need to do is to bolt the supplied mounts to a front tow hitch, and I'd be off to the races. I wouldn't need to chase down special mounting "tabs" that are used on the Blue Ox and other "quality" tow bars, though I'd be giving up some of the ease of hooking up my Jeep I suppose. OTOH, I've never found it all that difficult to hook up a trailer, and it can't be steered right up to the tow hitch ball like a Jeep can.
Decisions, decisions... 
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195756 is a reply to message #195723] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 10:00 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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| Carl S. wrote on Wed, 16 January 2013 18:49 |
Mark,
It seems to me that it would be much simpler amd not much more expensive, to just go with the Tompkins stuff from Quadratec or some other supplier. They have the tow plate with a receiver if that's what you want, tow hook brackets to mount it on, and a tow bar, all made for the application.
If you want to go the route I went, you 'll be doing it the hard way. Nothing wrong with that, and you can save some money.
|
Good points, all. I guess the direction I end up going will come down to what I can find in the way of a cheap attachment point (tow hitch or otherwise). The thing I liked about the Kurt bar was that it looked beefier, and had the chain loops built in. It also seems to mount more solid (though at the cost of some fiddling to get the front bolt into the newly-drilled hole using a fishwire). It looks like the cost difference (assuming I buy bolt-on adapters for a specific tow bar) would be only about $30 since I don't need the tow hook mounts like I would with the Tomken. And like I mentioned, if I just used the supplied mounts on the Ebay towbar, the Kurt bar would actually be cheaper (and I'm not sure the attachment points on the Tomken would fit the Ebay tow bar, though that would bear some looking into, I guess...).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195757 is a reply to message #195753] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 10:01 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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>I've never found it all that difficult to hook up a trailer
And neither have I or my friends, but I saw plenty of them quietly replace their old, fixed bars with self-centering ones. I figured I'd just cut to the chase and bought the self-centering/self-storing model.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195758 is a reply to message #195671] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 10:18 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I don't have much experience hooking up a toad, but it's gotta be a whole lot easier than hooking up a typical trailer - at least one that's too heavy to hork around by the tongue.
One thing that struck me is that I've already got a wireless rearview camera and monitor in place (the receiver activates automatically when the reverse light circuit turns on the rearview camera). Seems to me I could just put another wireless camera down directly in front of the hitch, pointing at the ball (assuming the hitch I get uses a ball, of course), and could just drive the ball on the GMC back under the hitch. Probably more trouble than just driving the Jeep forward, but I'm a big fan of frivolous use of technology... and those cameras are really pretty cheap. The hardest part would be running yet another wire from the cockpit to the rear bumper (for power).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195774 is a reply to message #195758] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 12:37 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Mark,
I've done lots of towing over the past 60 years, of cars and trailers, and
with every type of tow bar. I've owned just about every style tow bar you
can imagine, and both the S-10 and the CRV which I now have as towables are
equipped with modified base plates so that 'most any tow bar will work with
them.
Given it all to do again, I would stretch the budget "now", to avoid all
the "half-way" options I've been to in achieving a coach-mounted adjustable
tow bar. No fancy camera arrangement (even for a gadget-addicted EE); no
precarious mirror mounts to aim and TRY to use; no pulling up to "just the
right spot" (only to have to get back into one vehicle or the other and
move it 2 inches); no trying to nudge the connections together "just a
LITTLE bit"; no frustrated wife who can't quite follow hand signals; no
aiming down the centerline of the hood to get lined up "just right"; no
problem of depth perception which just doesn't seem to work this morning;
no dents in the bumper where the hitch went a little past the ball; no
hanging half way out the driver's door with one foot inside and the other
on the ground trying to see the hitch and ball; no more...
Just pull up (or let HER do it) close to the right spot, slide the two arms
out and insert the pins. The arms will lock when you drive away. (I don't
REALLY depend on that -- I back the toad up, with appropriate steering
inputs, to make both arms lock, then do the toad preparations such as
proper gear selection; I can't bring myself to trust the automatic locks.)
If you possibly can, go ahead and get the nice tow bar you WILL eventually
want. Life's too short to screw around with the alternatives.
JWIT,
Ken H.
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Mark wrote:
>
>
> I don't have much experience hooking up a toad, but it's gotta be a whole
> lot easier than hooking up a typical trailer - at least one that's too
> heavy to hork around by the tongue.
> ...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195775 is a reply to message #195774] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 12:55 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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>you WILL eventually want
Exactly.
One advantage of the 'flexible' tow bar connection is that sometimes you need to hook up and a nice straight shot at the hitch isn't an option. Maybe you're in the back corner of a burger joint parking lot at the beach on the 4th of July and you've got to work with what little open space is available. Or the rig is parked at the end of a small cul-de-sac.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195776 is a reply to message #195774] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 12:59 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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What Ken H. said is very good advice. I have a 78 26' Royale with a 2"
receiver that exits below the bumper. I have a blue ox tow bar and tow
plates that mount on my 1990 Ford 2wd Bronco ll 5 speed manual. Just drive
up somewhere close, release the slides, drop the coupler over the ball,
tighten, pin and lock the ball coupler. Fasten the safety chains, plug in
the electrical pigtail. Flip the locking levers on the arms of the hitch
and drive off. No drama. The bronco ll is under 3000 #. I do have a 403
with 3:70 final drive and that makes a big difference. I lose 1-2 mpg when
towing.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Jan 17, 2013 10:38 AM, "Ken Henderson" <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> I've done lots of towing over the past 60 years, of cars and trailers, and
> with every type of tow bar. I've owned just about every style tow bar you
> can imagine, and both the S-10 and the CRV which I now have as towables are
> equipped with modified base plates so that 'most any tow bar will work with
> them.
>
> Given it all to do again, I would stretch the budget "now", to avoid all
> the "half-way" options I've been to in achieving a coach-mounted adjustable
> tow bar. No fancy camera arrangement (even for a gadget-addicted EE); no
> precarious mirror mounts to aim and TRY to use; no pulling up to "just the
> right spot" (only to have to get back into one vehicle or the other and
> move it 2 inches); no trying to nudge the connections together "just a
> LITTLE bit"; no frustrated wife who can't quite follow hand signals; no
> aiming down the centerline of the hood to get lined up "just right"; no
> problem of depth perception which just doesn't seem to work this morning;
> no dents in the bumper where the hitch went a little past the ball; no
> hanging half way out the driver's door with one foot inside and the other
> on the ground trying to see the hitch and ball; no more...
>
> Just pull up (or let HER do it) close to the right spot, slide the two arms
> out and insert the pins. The arms will lock when you drive away. (I don't
> REALLY depend on that -- I back the toad up, with appropriate steering
> inputs, to make both arms lock, then do the toad preparations such as
> proper gear selection; I can't bring myself to trust the automatic locks.)
>
> If you possibly can, go ahead and get the nice tow bar you WILL eventually
> want. Life's too short to screw around with the alternatives.
>
> JWIT,
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Mark wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I don't have much experience hooking up a toad, but it's gotta be a whole
> > lot easier than hooking up a typical trailer - at least one that's too
> > heavy to hork around by the tongue.
> > ...
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195783 is a reply to message #195758] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 14:55 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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I'm sure the adjustable tow bars are wonderful and easier to use. There are possibly scenarios where any other typ might be difficult or even impossible to hook up. But, we use a simple fixed tow bar, like Johnny's, and have found it very easy to hook up. My wife is exceptionally good at driving the towd up to the back of the coach with me guiding the tow bar and signaling directions, and we get it hooked up first time, every time. I can latch the hitch to the ball and hook up the safety chains and wiring in a minute or two.
That's not to say I won't upgrade to a nicer tow bar at some point, but we have towed out Tracker scores of times (and the Cherokee once) and thousands of miles with a $75.00 Craig's list tow bar and a home made attachment point.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad [message #195800 is a reply to message #195783] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 18:08 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Well, I just pull the Toadstone up close and reasonably inline, and then get out and eyeball which way it needs to turn. Lift the bar, aim the wheels, and pull it forward to connect. Works like a champ. Admittedly, the car is very lightweight and has little rolling resistance. This weekend is two-fold: Fab a stronger tow plate on it, and pull the injector pump off and ship out to Memphis Deisel for rebuild/reseal. It's waaaay overdue. I'll need it for Cherokee Rose in a couple of weeks. Also cruising ebay for a timing kit, the fallback is I'll pay the local shop to set the pump timing.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Carl Stouffer <carljr3b@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Jeep Cherokee as a Toad
I'm sure the adjustable tow bars are wonderful and easier to use. There are possibly scenarios where any other typ might be difficult or even impossible to hook up. But, we use a simple fixed tow bar, like Johnny's, and have found it very easy to hook up. My wife is exceptionally good at driving the towd up to the back of the coach with me guiding the tow bar and signaling directions, and we get it hooked up first time, every time. I can latch the hitch to the ball and hook up the safety chains and wiring in a minute or two.
That's not to say I won't upgrade to a nicer tow bar at some point, but we have towed out Tracker scores of times (and the Cherokee once) and thousands of miles with a $75.00 Craig's list tow bar and a home made attachment point.
--
Carl S.
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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