Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Scam, anyone?
| Scam, anyone? [message #318907] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 20:20  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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In addition to putting the new transmission in my coach I decided to see about getting the brakes to work properly. I added a reaction arm system from Applied last fall, but I still wasn't happy with the braking. Some inspection showed the master cylinder was bottoming, so I found a rebuilt one - correct one even - at O'Rielly's. Checking the system visually, I found these two weird brass cylinders teed into two lines, the front input at the proportioning valve and the rear line leaving the valve. Made by Brake Guard Products of Spokane Washington. There was a patent number, 4,571,009 assigned to one Ed Jones, prexy of Brake Guard products. The patent claims it's a pressure vessel with some specific ratios of dimension and some claimed benefits from internal air pressure.
OK, why would I want a pressure vessel on the brake lines? Well, I looked a little further and found:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1998/01/ftc-upholds-charges-against-brake-guard-add-brakes-are-not-abs
Aha! It seems Mr. Jones let his mouth overload his asshole as we say. I suspect the PPO bought into the claims of a poor man's ABS for his coach and installed them or had them installed. They are now uninstalled and the ports plugged. They're machined out of brass, at some point I'll take the broken one apart and see quite what's inside it. Its mounting nipple separated before it loosened in its tee fitting. The other one is unbroken. Both are available for a modest honorarium, or I'll keep them as souvenirs.
Mr Jones had several other patents mentioned, I didn't peruse them and thus have no feeling as to their legitimacy or lack thereof.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #318908 is a reply to message #318907] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 20:33  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
A lot of folks bought into the Brake Guard foolishness, even in the GMC
community because I've seen them on a lot of GMC's. None for a long time,
thank goodness. I think the whole thing (as your link indicates) dried up
before GMCNet started in '98. PERHAPS, if this group had existed we could
have convinced folks how foolish it would be to install an accumulator in a
static hydraulic system -- just another volume for the MC to try to fill.
You didn't say whether removing them helped your pedal travel.
Ken H.
On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> In addition to putting the new transmission in my coach I decided to see
> about getting the brakes to work properly. I added a reaction arm system
> from Applied last fall, but I still wasn't happy with the braking. Some
> inspection showed the master cylinder was bottoming, so I found a rebuilt
> one
> - correct one even - at O'Rielly's. Checking the system visually, I found
> these two weird brass cylinders teed into two lines, the front input at the
> proportioning valve and the rear line leaving the valve. Made by Brake
> Guard Products of Spokane Washington. There was a patent number, 4,571,009
> assigned to one Ed Jones, prexy of Brake Guard products. The patent
> claims it's a pressure vessel with some specific ratios of dimension and
> some
> claimed benefits from internal air pressure.
> OK, why would I want a pressure vessel on the brake lines? Well, I looked
> a little further and found:
>
> https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1998/01/
> ftc-upholds-charges-against-brake-guard-add-brakes-are-not-abs
>
> Aha! It seems Mr. Jones let his mouth overload his asshole as we say. I
> suspect the PPO bought into the claims of a poor man's ABS for his coach and
> installed them or had them installed. They are now uninstalled and the
> ports plugged. They're machined out of brass, at some point I'll take the
> broken one apart and see quite what's inside it. Its mounting nipple
> separated before it loosened in its tee fitting. The other one is unbroken.
> Both are available for a modest honorarium, or I'll keep them as souvenirs.
> Mr Jones had several other patents mentioned, I didn't peruse them and
> thus have no feeling as to their legitimacy or lack thereof.
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #318909 is a reply to message #318907] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 20:32 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
They're in the same group as the ignition coil "spark intensifiers," carb
intake "turbulators," etc.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Johnny
Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 11:20 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone?
In addition to putting the new transmission in my coach I decided to see
about getting the brakes to work properly. I added a reaction arm system
from Applied last fall, but I still wasn't happy with the braking. Some
inspection showed the master cylinder was bottoming, so I found a rebuilt
one
- correct one even - at O'Rielly's. Checking the system visually, I found
these two weird brass cylinders teed into two lines, the front input at the
proportioning valve and the rear line leaving the valve. Made by Brake
Guard Products of Spokane Washington. There was a patent number, 4,571,009
assigned to one Ed Jones, prexy of Brake Guard products. The patent claims
it's a pressure vessel with some specific ratios of dimension and some
claimed benefits from internal air pressure.
OK, why would I want a pressure vessel on the brake lines? Well, I looked a
little further and found:
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1998/01/ftc-upholds-charges-a
gainst-brake-guard-add-brakes-are-not-abs
Aha! It seems Mr. Jones let his mouth overload his asshole as we say. I
suspect the PPO bought into the claims of a poor man's ABS for his coach and
installed them or had them installed. They are now uninstalled and the
ports plugged. They're machined out of brass, at some point I'll take the
broken one apart and see quite what's inside it. Its mounting nipple
separated before it loosened in its tee fitting. The other one is unbroken.
Both are available for a modest honorarium, or I'll keep them as souvenirs.
Mr Jones had several other patents mentioned, I didn't peruse them and thus
have no feeling as to their legitimacy or lack thereof.
--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Scam, anyone? [message #318910 is a reply to message #318907] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 20:45 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Ken, I just took them off today and put the new master cylinder in, I'll bleed everything tonmorrow. I can state with accuracy, the brakes weren't worth a damn with them on. I suspect however that the performance - or lack thereof - was due to a failing master cylinder.
Actually, my fave is the thingie that heats the fuel thereby gasifying it and making the burn more efficient. Looks like a great way to set the woods on fire - along with whatever vehicle it's mounted on.
Don't get me started on loudspeaker wire.....
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: Scam, anyone? [message #318911 is a reply to message #318910] |
Mon, 12 June 2017 21:04 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Johnny, they make a speaker wire that makes your radio louder?? I'm up for that...
Johnny Bridges wrote on Mon, 12 June 2017 21:45Ken, I just took them off today and put the new master cylinder in, I'll bleed everything tonmorrow. I can state with accuracy, the brakes weren't worth a damn with them on. I suspect however that the performance - or lack thereof - was due to a failing master cylinder.
Actually, my fave is the thingie that heats the fuel thereby gasifying it and making the burn more efficient. Looks like a great way to set the woods on fire - along with whatever vehicle it's mounted on.
Don't get me started on loudspeaker wire.....
--johnny
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Scam, anyone? [message #318922 is a reply to message #318907] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 07:35 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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OK, Chuck, you started it. Along with the idea that painting the edges of your CDs would make the music sound better came an outfit that made speaker cable with each individual strand insulated so that 'Skin effect' wouldn't screw up the music. This being an effect which is frequency determined, and might make some difference in wires thirty miles or so long. The scam got to the point that the Audio Engineering Society did a double blind test with a panel of expert ears, both pro and con. At the end, the report noted "Some felt the switching system was at fault, while others suspected they had heard the Emperor's new speaker cables".
As an analogy consider this. An owner comes to you to 'make the brakes better' by installing these things. When you get the coach, the wheel cylinders are leaking, hoses are collapsed, and it's been allowed to run out of fluid without bleeding the system. When you correct these problems and install the Brake Guards, the owner is correct in saying the brakes are improved immeasurably. Which in point of fact they are, but the inclusion of the Brake Guards had nothing to do with the improvement.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #318924 is a reply to message #318911] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 07:38 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 7:05 PM Charles Boyd
wrote:
> Johnny, they make a speaker wire that makes your radio louder?? I'm up
> for that...
>
>
I have removed them from all three of my coaches . Nothing bad , just not
necessary
>
> Johnny Bridges wrote on Mon, 12 June 2017 21:45
>> Ken, I just took them off today and put the new master cylinder in, I'll
> bleed everything tonmorrow. I can state with accuracy, the brakes
>> weren't worth a damn with them on. I suspect however that the
> performance - or lack thereof - was due to a failing master cylinder.
>> Actually, my fave is the thingie that heats the fuel thereby gasifying
> it and making the burn more efficient. Looks like a great way to set the
>> woods on fire - along with whatever vehicle it's mounted on.
>> Don't get me started on loudspeaker wire.....
>>
>>
>> --johnny
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Scam, anyone? [message #318926 is a reply to message #318907] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 07:47 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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My only concern was, one of the two sheared off instead of unscrewing, so I had to replace the tee - the lines had been reconfigured to accommodate the tees on the proportioning valve. Cost me ten dollars. Emory, assuming your brakes were working when you removed them, did the pedal travel change any without them?
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #318928 is a reply to message #318922] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 08:10 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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There’s never a shortage of hucksters selling over unity machines (perpetual motion), cars that run on water (now explain to me how this works), or a 10 foot square solar panel that powers your WHOLE HOUSE (modern appliances are over-rated, don’t you know).
Who remembers the thing you put in your air cleaner that was advertised heavily in the back of DIY magazines in the 80’s?
I think the modern version of this is the “plug in wall heaters”. 1,500 watts is 1,500 watts, and will produce a little more than 5000 btu/hr - but if you screw these brake things into them, and paint the edges green, while using speaker cables made of expensium, which is wrapped in unobtainum (a distant relative of titanium), you’ll get 5000 btu/hr!
Simply amazing!
Dolph
DE AD0LF
Wheeling, West Virginia
1977 26’ ex-PalmBeach
1-Ton, Sullybilt Bags, Reaction Arms, 3.70 LSD, Manny Transmission, EV-6010
“The Aluminum and Fiberglass Mistress"
> On Jun 13, 2017, at 8:35 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
>
> OK, Chuck, you started it. Along with the idea that painting the edges of your CDs would make the music sound better came an outfit that made speaker
> cable with each individual strand insulated so that 'Skin effect' wouldn't screw up the music. This being an effect which is frequency determined,
> and might make some difference in wires thirty miles or so long. The scam got to the point that the Audio Engineering Society did a double blind test
> with a panel of expert ears, both pro and con. At the end, the report noted "Some felt the switching system was at fault, while others suspected they
> had heard the Emperor's new speaker cables".
> As an analogy consider this. An owner comes to you to 'make the brakes better' by installing these things. When you get the coach, the wheel
> cylinders are leaking, hoses are collapsed, and it's been allowed to run out of fluid without bleeding the system. When you correct these problems
> and install the Brake Guards, the owner is correct in saying the brakes are improved immeasurably. Which in point of fact they are, but the inclusion
> of the Brake Guards had nothing to do with the improvement.
>
>
> --johnny
> --
> 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> "I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #318931 is a reply to message #318927] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 09:06 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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I remember first seeing these "poor man's ABS" units in the JC Whitney catalogs I used to drool over as a teenager.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
> On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> I hate to admit that I was into this stuff long enough ago to remember these. At that time I also was associated with a collection of wild-assed
> engineers that had brains to spare. Such was how I got involved in many strange projects.
>
> This was the same group that tried to use water to balance wheels. Just like the beads, but this was before those. The Math worked, but the practice
> didn't. Water sloshes and any bump would send it to places you didn't want it. We also tried to build a Humphrey(?) Pump - an internal combustion
> pump with no parts. The water was the piston. We also used DMSO to add water to the fuel of model aircraft engines and ended up getting more power
> than they later could with nitro-methane.
>
> One of these people theorized about pulse dampers in the hydraulic back system. So, we assembled and did a lot of low cost testing. (Low cost only
> in cash-out-of-pocket, these methods and procedures were world class.) The final analysis was the these were possibly a good addition to a screwed up
> system with lots of run-out in the drums or disks (I had the only disks at the time). But if the brake system was maintained properly, the dampers
> were of no value. Kind of a lot like I would later get to demonstrate with the alcohol addition to motor fuel.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: Scam, anyone? [message #318933 is a reply to message #318907] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 09:48 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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These things showed up in SCCA racing in the late 70's or very early 80's. They very quickly disappeared.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #318934 is a reply to message #318909] |
Tue, 13 June 2017 09:43 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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My father in law was a great fan of J.C. Whitney. One time he ordered
about a dozen different devices that went in front of, behind, under and
inside your existing carb that were gar-on-teed to improve your fuel
economy, intensify your spark, make hair grow on a golf ball, etc. After
waiting weeks for truck shipped stuff, at long last all the devices were
faithfully installed after midnight re-reading the instruction manuals. No
improvement could ever be noted. He was a changed and skeptical man after
that experience. Oh, I almost forgot, he was a graduate of Willamette
University, and was a very intelligent person, with no sales resistance.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Jun 13, 2017 7:07 AM, "Les Burt" wrote:
I remember first seeing these "poor man's ABS" units in the JC Whitney
catalogs I used to drool over as a teenager.
Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'
> On Jun 13, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> I hate to admit that I was into this stuff long enough ago to remember
these. At that time I also was associated with a collection of wild-assed
> engineers that had brains to spare. Such was how I got involved in many
strange projects.
>
> This was the same group that tried to use water to balance wheels. Just
like the beads, but this was before those. The Math worked, but the
practice
> didn't. Water sloshes and any bump would send it to places you didn't
want it. We also tried to build a Humphrey(?) Pump - an internal combustion
> pump with no parts. The water was the piston. We also used DMSO to add
water to the fuel of model aircraft engines and ended up getting more power
> than they later could with nitro-methane.
>
> One of these people theorized about pulse dampers in the hydraulic back
system. So, we assembled and did a lot of low cost testing. (Low cost only
> in cash-out-of-pocket, these methods and procedures were world class.)
The final analysis was the these were possibly a good addition to a screwed
up
> system with lots of run-out in the drums or disks (I had the only disks
at the time). But if the brake system was maintained properly, the dampers
> were of no value. Kind of a lot like I would later get to demonstrate
with the alcohol addition to motor fuel.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #319004 is a reply to message #318909] |
Wed, 14 June 2017 14:16 |
Rob
Messages: 651
Registered: November 2013
Location: Victoria, BC
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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How about HHO systems?!?
Rob
Victoria, BC
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
On 2017-06-12, at 6:32 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Johnny,
>
> They're in the same group as the ignition coil "spark intensifiers," carb
> intake "turbulators," etc.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
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Rob -
Victoria, BC -
76 Royale - Rear Twins/Dry Bath
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| Re: Scam, anyone? [message #319012 is a reply to message #318907] |
Wed, 14 June 2017 16:44 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
They got fuel cells that run on hydrogen and oxygen. There's only one very basic problem with the HHO Systems scam. Until we repeal some very basic physical laws, it takes more energy to separate oxygen and hydrogen from water than we get back by joining them. Other'n that, a great ides.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone? [message #319027 is a reply to message #319012] |
Wed, 14 June 2017 18:48 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Johnny,
Whenever I read about the HHO systems and how great they work I think of the
jolly fat guy in a red suit going HHO - HHO - HHO - HHO! :-)
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Johnny
Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 7:44 AM
To: gmclist@list.gmcnet.org
Cc: Johnny Bridges
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Scam, anyone?
They got fuel cells that run on hydrogen and oxygen. There's only one very
basic problem with the HHO Systems scam. Until we repeal some very basic
physical laws, it takes more energy to separate oxygen and hydrogen from
water than we get back by joining them. Other'n that, a great ides.
--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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