GMCforum
For enthusiast of the Classic GMC Motorhome built from 1973 to 1978. A web-based mirror of the GMCnet mailing list.

Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal
[GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291738] Wed, 09 December 2015 10:04 Go to next message
glwgmc is currently offline  glwgmc   United States
Messages: 1014
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 10
Senior Member
The FiTech EFI system I ordered for the Clasco came yesterday. It is beautifully machined and comes with what appear to be high quality fittings, hoses and sensors. Everything is integrated into the throttle body - the mass air sensor, throttle position sensor, vacuum sensor stock off the shelf GM injectors and the electronic control unit so the only external sensors are the temp sending unit and the off the shelf Bosch two wire O2 sensor. They even include a band-in-place bung so you can use a simple step drill to position the O2 sensor bung and band it in place. Later you can drive to a muffler shop and have it welded if you wish. The four even sized throttle plates all open at the same time and the fuel is injected through very small holes that ring the top of each throttle plate. They claim this provides better and more even fuel atomization. They say they have now modified the base so it fits properly on our stock manifold without an adapter plate, also. The linkage looks to be the same as our stock Qjet set up without the need for external return springs. All the wiring is included with what appear to be OEM quality connectors. I will report more later but it looks like a really simple and fast install.

The surge tank (they call it “Command Center”) is especially nice looking. It is a single round module (with two different diameters, larger at the top and smaller at the bottom) which houses a high pressure, fully submerged fuel pump to supply the EFI fuel rail, a low pressure input with a float valve that mimics the Qjet float float and valve so you can fill it from your existing mechanical or electric fuel pump, high and low pressure gauges and a vent fitting. There is no return line to the fuel tanks required or suggested, just a vent line that I will T into the fill vent along side the fill tube. The whole thing is small enough that it mounted easily on a stock passenger side radiator bracket on my 77 using a piece of UHMW sheet for noise and vibration dampening. Took about an hour to fabricate the bracket, drill the holes and mount the unit. It sits in the air stream ahead of the radiator but off to the outlet side where it will do little to impede the air flow to either the radiator or to the external, fan assisted transmission oil cooler that I mounted on the outboard side of the radiator side air baffles. It is easy to confirm correct fuel pressure on both the high pressure EFI supply side and the low pressure surge tank fill side just by opening the passenger side hood.

Dick Patterson is off to an industry trade show where hopefully FiTech will have a booth. If so, he will talk to them about any recommended changes to the stock HEI advance system for those who want to let the distributor take care of spark control. The FiTech unit also appears to have spark control functions built in if you want to lock out the mechanical advance and let that unit control spark. I will initially have the stock HEI control spark and then see about moving to the FiTech unit controlling spark once it gets the fuel/air ratio and spark advance maps all filled in from the elevation-load and rpm data gathered during the initial drive-in period.

Dick also suggested adding a push button to let you spin the motor to pull oil up to pressure without starting before using the key to engage the EFI and start the motor after it has been sitting for a long time. He is concerned about oil drain down and bearing wear from the EFI instant start putting full compression load on the main bearings before the oil pump has a chance to bring everything up to full pressure. He characterizes the hard starting of the stock system (to pump fuel into the empty Qjet fuel bowl) as a blessing in disguise. That is easy to do by simply running 12vdc to a push button switch and from there directly to the engage post on the starter solenoid. Pressing the button will spin the starter without powering the HEI or the EFI. Once oil pressure is established then turn the key normally for an instant start with oil already in the bearings. That only would need to be done if the coach has been sitting for a long period of time (weeks or months). For normal daily use just turn the key and go.

It is raining cats and dogs outside today so not sure how eager I am to get out to the RV garage to do the install and initial drive in but will report progress. One last comment is that the packaging is really professionally done. Die cut foam to house everything inside a heavy presentation box which ships inside a shipping box filled with foam peanuts. Full color instructions for both the EFI and the Command Center. Nicely done. If it works as well as it looks it might be a good alternative for us, especially at around half the retail price of the other add-on EFI units available for our coaches. The EFI unit is $995, the Command Center is $395 and shipping was $55.

Jerry
Jerry & Sharon Work
Kerby, OR
glwork@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com

78 Royale with most everything done to modernize a GMC mechanically
77/94 Clasco bone stock (soon to have EFI) and looks like it just left the Clasco facility



_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org


Jerry & Sharon Work
78 Royale
Kerby, OR
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291756 is a reply to message #291738] Wed, 09 December 2015 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RF_Burns is currently offline  RF_Burns   Mexico
Messages: 2277
Registered: June 2008
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
Senior Member
Jerry,
the FiTech system looks very neat.

You mentioned it had a built-in Mass Airflow Sensor which got me excited, but on the website it says it has a MAP Sensor.

The Sump Tank looks very interesting. Let us know how it goes with the install!


Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291761 is a reply to message #291756] Wed, 09 December 2015 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Otterwan   United States
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Jerry - Would you mind if I shared a link to your post on the GMC Facebook page? I was also curious if you planned to use the Fuel Command Center. That seems like a pretty neat option, since you get a submerged electric fuel pump and no need to run a return line, all for $400. - Dave

1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291765 is a reply to message #291756] Wed, 09 December 2015 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
The MAP sensor is to monitor vacuum, while the Mass Flow is for measuring
the Volume of air.
Mass flow sensors work well in labs where they can stay clean. Does not
take much to collect dirt on the fine wires and create problems.
There is no perfect EFI unit, but we have the best technical support on our
Howell / EBL system as there are several top notch guys available to assist
7 days a week 12-14 hours a day.I can state that our EBL/ Howell kit from
us will increase your mileage by minimum of 1-1 1/2 mpg and more power.
I know not only our system but the others as I have installed and sold them.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Bruce Hislop wrote:

> Jerry,
> the FiTech system looks very neat.
>
> You mentioned it had a built-in Mass Airflow Sensor which got me excited,
> but on the website it says it has a MAP Sensor.
>
> The Sump Tank looks very interesting. Let us know how it goes with the
> install!
> --
> Bruce Hislop
> ON Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
> Hubler 1 ton front end
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org



Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291767 is a reply to message #291765] Wed, 09 December 2015 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loffen is currently offline  Loffen   Norway
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
Senior Member
The Fitech is really interesting with a price of only $ 995 + fuel pump, I hope you will post some pictures of it later and tell us how it worls.

Dave it was posted on the FB page a month ago or so.

What is also very interesting is that Holley will have a similar setup for sale next year with identical price.


1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291771 is a reply to message #291767] Wed, 09 December 2015 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loffen is currently offline  Loffen   Norway
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Here is a link to the tread on FB

https://www.facebook.com/groups/classicgmcmotorhomes/permalink/457271594397383/?comment_id=464724206985455&notif_t=group_comment_reply


1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291772 is a reply to message #291738] Wed, 09 December 2015 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
Senior Member
I'm not getting past the design faux pas of mounting a square bore device on a spread bore Qjet manifold. That is just bad plumbing and in my mind would negate the gains the system provides. The primary bore would be like a NASCAR restrictor plate to the front barrels, whether they are progressive or in this case not. Concern would be some rich/ some lean cyls at different throttle openings Other than that the consolidation of wiring to onboard creates less fail points and that's good.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291774 is a reply to message #291772] Wed, 09 December 2015 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loffen is currently offline  Loffen   Norway
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
Senior Member
But that is why we have the Rockwell manifold, the carb mount is a copy of the Edelbrock performer intake and that is pretty clever, it will only take a 1/8" thick adapter plate to make it a squarebore intake



JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 10 December 2015 02:49
I'm not getting past the design faux pas of mounting a square bore device on a spread bore Qjet manifold. That is just bad plumbing and in my mind would negate the gains the system provides. The primary bore would be like a NASCAR restrictor plate to the front barrels, whether they are progressive or in this case not. Concern would be some rich/ some lean cyls at different throttle openings Other than that the consolidation of wiring to onboard creates less fail points and that's good.



1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291925 is a reply to message #291738] Sat, 12 December 2015 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
Senior Member
Following with great interest; would like to add EFI to my (new to me) '76 Royale within the next year.

For pre-start oiling, would it make sense to find/add a pressure sensor signal that holds off the ignition (edit.... and high pressure fuel pump), or simply a timer. I imagine the delay could be programmed into the controller as an option by FiTech.


Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.

[Updated on: Sat, 12 December 2015 13:57]

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291929 is a reply to message #291925] Sat, 12 December 2015 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Norisan is currently offline  Norisan   Canada
Messages: 18
Registered: April 2015
Location: Calgary
Karma: 0
Junior Member
If you are using the Fitech fuel command center, maybe just a switch in the positive wire to the fuel command center, so that you can spin the engine with the switch off and switch on when you want it to start? This method would achieve two things - first it would prime the oil system and second the low pressure fuel pump would top up the command center reservoir. Or you could achieve the same thing with an oil pressure switch on the positive to the command center.

Norm.

[Updated on: Sat, 12 December 2015 13:53]

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291932 is a reply to message #291738] Sat, 12 December 2015 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhbridges is currently offline  jhbridges   United States
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
Senior Member
It's heresy to the purists, but at the engine speeds we see, I don't think a squarebore on a quad manifold is going to matter very much. On the ratrod, it probably would saince it turns up ~~6K at the shift points and it's got a LOT of cam in it. Jheaded 455 at 2400 in my coach, I submit it won't matter.

--johnny


Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291941 is a reply to message #291929] Sat, 12 December 2015 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimk is currently offline  jimk   United States
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
Fuel injection is no longer about fuel management only like these new
units you all are excited about .
When your not having full ignition timing control with some sophistication,
then your not getting all that is required to produce power and milage.
People like Ken Henderson,Walt Hally, and Randy Van Winkle will back me up
on this.
The Dynamic EFI-EBL Flash System will do more without modification at all,
more than these units you all think is the answer.
Ignition timing is where majority of the power and economy is, not so much
on fuel delivery.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Norman Allinson wrote:

> If you are using the Fitech fuel command center, maybe just a switch in
> the positive wire to the fuel command center, so that you can spin the
> engine
> with the switch off and switch on when you want it to start? This method
> would achieve two things - first it would prime the oil system and second
> the
> low pressure fuel pump would top up the command center reservoir.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org



Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291955 is a reply to message #291738] Sun, 13 December 2015 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
Senior Member
I believe the FiTech unit has timing control.

Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291958 is a reply to message #291941] Sun, 13 December 2015 04:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loffen is currently offline  Loffen   Norway
Messages: 1087
Registered: August 2013
Location: Norway
Karma: 1
Senior Member
Nah I think you are wrong Jim, The Dynamic EFI-EBL system will hardly do more that benefit the GMC owner, I suggest that you read the manual of the Fithec system, all in all it is cheaper, more user friendly and most important self learning.


jimk wrote on Sun, 13 December 2015 01:35
Fuel injection is no longer about fuel management only like these new
units you all are excited about .
When your not having full ignition timing control with some sophistication,
then your not getting all that is required to produce power and milage.
People like Ken Henderson,Walt Hally, and Randy Van Winkle will back me up
on this.
The Dynamic EFI-EBL Flash System will do more without modification at all,
more than these units you all think is the answer.
Ignition timing is where majority of the power and economy is, not so much
on fuel delivery.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Norman Allinson wrote:

> If you are using the Fitech fuel command center, maybe just a switch in
> the positive wire to the fuel command center, so that you can spin the
> engine
> with the switch off and switch on when you want it to start? This method
> would achieve two things - first it would prime the oil system and second
> the
> low pressure fuel pump would top up the command center reservoir.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>



--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org




1973 23' # 1848 Sky Blue Glacier called Baby Blue and a 1973 26'-3 # 1460 Parrot green Seqouia Known as the Big Green, And sold my 1973 26'-2 # 581 White Canyon lands under the name Dobbelt trøbbel in Norway
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291959 is a reply to message #291955] Sun, 13 December 2015 06:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
The devil is in the details, which I haven't seen for the FiTech unit. Has
anyone? For example, what does "learning" mean regarding both fuel and
spark.

EBL learns only the fuel (Volumetric Efficiency, VE) tables, during closed
loop operation, so that during open loop it can guess at the correct fuel
flow for then-current conditions. While it can be set to save that
information for later easy updating of the pre-programmed VE tables by an
operator, it does not automatically do so. What does FiTech do?

EBL does no spark learning. It can optionally store data which an an
operator can use, judgmentally, to modify the pre-programmed timing curve.
Dynamically, it merely retards spark when the settings prescribed by that
curve cause spark knocks detected by the spark sensor. What does FiTech
do? Will it adjust spark upward and/or downward to achieve optimal
timing? Does it permanently store that curve permanently?

After 50 years of considering heat and vibration, as the biggest enemies of
electronics, I'm skeptical about subjecting the ECU to the worst conditions
in the vehicle. But then, I'm old, pore, decrepit, out of a job, and out
of touch with the latest technology; maybe they now like it there. :-)

I would definitely like to get rid of the nightmare rat's nest of a wiring
harness.

Ken H.


On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 2:08 AM, Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> I believe the FiTech unit has timing control.
> --
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org



Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291961 is a reply to message #291959] Sun, 13 December 2015 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
USAussie is currently offline  USAussie   United States
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
Senior Member
OK,

Looks like we need someone who knows enough about EFI to call FiTech and ask all the right questions.

I've read the blurb and it "sounds" like their systems are "all singing, all dancing" but that could be bullshit!

I would be happy to do it but I don't know shit from shineola when it comes to EFI.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson

The devil is in the details, which I haven't seen for the FiTech unit. Has
anyone? For example, what does "learning" mean regarding both fuel and
spark.

EBL learns only the fuel (Volumetric Efficiency, VE) tables, during closed
loop operation, so that during open loop it can guess at the correct fuel
flow for then-current conditions. While it can be set to save that
information for later easy updating of the pre-programmed VE tables by an
operator, it does not automatically do so. What does FiTech do?

EBL does no spark learning. It can optionally store data which an an
operator can use, judgmentally, to modify the pre-programmed timing curve.
Dynamically, it merely retards spark when the settings prescribed by that
curve cause spark knocks detected by the spark sensor. What does FiTech
do? Will it adjust spark upward and/or downward to achieve optimal
timing? Does it permanently store that curve permanently?

After 50 years of considering heat and vibration, as the biggest enemies of
electronics, I'm skeptical about subjecting the ECU to the worst conditions
in the vehicle. But then, I'm old, pore, decrepit, out of a job, and out
of touch with the latest technology; maybe they now like it there. :-)

I would definitely like to get rid of the nightmare rat's nest of a wiring
harness.

Ken H.


_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org



Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291978 is a reply to message #291955] Sun, 13 December 2015 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt Colie is currently offline  Matt Colie   United States
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
Senior Member
Bill Van Vlack wrote on Sun, 13 December 2015 02:08
I believe the FiTech unit has timing control.

Bill,

I just came from reading everything that FiTech has published. Yes, the unit can provide "Timing Control", but it is rudimentary and really nothing you cannot get with a mechanical distributor with a vacuum pot. It incorporates a wide band O2 sensor, but those are not accurate or fast enough to do real stoichiometric control as the new cat systems need to pass. The primary reason these units need the connection to the distributor is for the crank speed signal. They are doing only doing a three by three control matrix. The 7747 (iirc) is eight by eight. It seems its total control is as a basic S/D (or R/D Speed or Rev/Density - shop dependent) system with minimal trim from the O2 sensor.

The lack of a knock sensor is, to me at least, a big loss. Closed loop timing control is a huge advantage for effective operation in changing conditions. It would be my primary reason to go to EFI.

If you are going to put one of these in a rat-rod or resto-rod that goes maybe 5000 miles a year, and never goes where it is too hot or out in the salt covered slush, it may be good for a long time. But, lets look at all of this.

It is understandable that KenH might be apprehensive about putting all that in the engine space. The only part I don't share is the concern he has that so much control can be done in a small package. But then, Ken is only about five miles ahead of the general population in his understanding and experience. All I can say, is look at your phone. The space shuttles flew their career with a Motorola 6502 processors running a 1MHz. That is what Ford used (a dedicated version of the 6502) until about 1995. But look at your smart phone. Mine is old an nothing great and it is a dual core 2Ghz processor. And, you can buy a chip-on-a-board that will do amazing things. That does not mean it will be successful.

Ken's thought about heat and vibration is interesting because I very much doubt that these devices will pass any of the MIL-spec certifications, but I can assure you as an Ex-Aftermarket guy that they don't care. If the unit fails in service, they will ship you parts to replace at your own expense and keep this up unit the warranty runs out. I very much doubt that they would complete the vehicle validations that I did in the late 90s. Just looking at them makes me sure of this.

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291980 is a reply to message #291959] Sun, 13 December 2015 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jhb1 is currently offline  jhb1   United States
Messages: 303
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Hi Ken
If you are worried about heat and vibration what about all the new FADEC controlled engines on most current generation jets. You get both heat cold and vibration all the time.


Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 13 December 2015 07:23
The devil is in the details, which I haven't seen for the FiTech unit. Has
anyone? For example, what does "learning" mean regarding both fuel and
spark.


"snip"
After 50 years of considering heat and vibration, as the biggest enemies of
electronics, I'm skeptical about subjecting the ECU to the worst conditions
in the vehicle. But then, I'm old, pore, decrepit, out of a job, and out
of touch with the latest technology; maybe they now like it there. Smile

I would definitely like to get rid of the nightmare rat's nest of a wiring
harness.

Ken H.


On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 2:08 AM, Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> I believe the FiTech unit has timing control.
> --
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org




John H. Bell
77 Royale; QuadBag,Manny OneTon,Honda EV4010, FITech
Montreal Qc.
Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291982 is a reply to message #291978] Sun, 13 December 2015 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Van Vlack is currently offline  Bill Van Vlack   United States
Messages: 419
Registered: September 2015
Location: Guemes Island, Washington
Karma: 14
Senior Member
Matt,
Just some questions, based on my understanding of fuel and spark control.... I've played around a little with a Bosch L3 with a companion 'EZK' for spark and an aftermarket product that allows off-line remapping using a WBO2, so I know enough to be dangerous.

Quote:
I just came from reading everything that FiTech has published. Yes, the unit can provide "Timing Control", but it is rudimentary and really nothing you cannot get with a mechanical distributor with a vacuum pot.


It looks like you can set the advance for six break points on the curve, plus idle. Is that possible with a mechanical distributor? Maybe it's not necessary since the stock dist. is perfect for the engine and why bother messing with it. (If this displays my ignorance, just give me a hint - I'd be happy to be educated but no need to waste your time here.)

Quote:
It incorporates a wide band O2 sensor, but those are not accurate or fast enough to do real stoichiometric control as the new cat systems need to pass. The primary reason these units need the connection to the distributor is for the crank speed signal. They are doing only doing a three by three control matrix. The 7747 (iirc) is eight by eight. It seems its total control is as a basic S/D (or R/D Speed or Rev/Density - shop dependent) system with minimal trim from the O2 sensor.


GMCs don't have cats, and I wonder if many of the cars that this is marketed to would have them. But I'm curious what sensor is needed for accurate and fast stoich control? The LH uses a narrowband sensor for this, and with the aftermarket tuning device you can adjust them to where the car can pass CA Emissions without a cat installed.

Quote:
The lack of a knock sensor is, to me at least, a big loss. Closed loop timing control is a huge advantage for effective operation in changing conditions. It would be my primary reason to go to EFI.


This (knock control) is a big one for me, too. Adjust it wrong and buy a new engine. The LH senses a knock and pulls out timing (for that cell of a (10x10?) matrix, then adds some of it back slowly.


Bill Van Vlack '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid November 2015.

[Updated on: Sun, 13 December 2015 14:36]

Report message to a moderator

Re: [GMCnet] FiTech EFI looks like the real deal [message #291986 is a reply to message #291980] Sun, 13 December 2015 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ken Henderson is currently offline  Ken Henderson   United States
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
Senior Member
John,

While I certainly admit that I haven't stayed abreast of electronics
development over the past few years -- hardly even this century, in fact
-- I suspect that the aircraft rated equipment meets a lot tighter design
and construction specs than any automotive aftermarket device. And knowing
nothing about the application you mention, I don't know what kind of
ambient conditions are controlled. But I do know a little about GMC engine
compartment conditions -- they AIN'T good! :-) ESPECIALLY if some puts
electronics on top of a manifold with an unblocked crossover. :-(

It's doubful that I'll swap out the already installed Howell/EBL system,
but I do think everyone considering any of these new fangled integrated
systems should understand that the "bleading edge" is not always as much
fun as it appears.

Ken H.


On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:00 PM, jhb1 wrote:

> Hi Ken
> If you are worried about heat and vibration what about all the new FADEC
> controlled engines on most current generation jets. You get both heat cold
> and vibration all the time.
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 13 December 2015 07:23
>> "snip"
>> After 50 years of considering heat and vibration, as the biggest enemies
> of
>> electronics, I'm skeptical about subjecting the ECU to the worst
> conditions
>> in the vehicle. But then, I'm old, pore, decrepit, out of a job, and out
>> of touch with the latest technology; maybe they now like it there. :)
>>
>> I would definitely like to get rid of the nightmare rat's nest of a
> wiring
>> harness.
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org



Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
Previous Topic: trip report
Next Topic: GMC's For Sale
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Fri Sep 06 11:04:07 CDT 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.03622 seconds