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Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271442] Sun, 08 February 2015 21:10 Go to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Location: Mounds View,MN
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OK all you star mechanics...
My Daily driver an 06 sebring convertible.
failed to crank after sitting over night in may garage, just a click.
I've owned the car for 4 years so I figure battery...
Put it in ..Same thing...Click

Starter, obviously...rebuilt from Napa ( oh oh )
Nope, same thing
well cables?
Cleaned and tight.

12.6 volts with the key off
8.5 volts trying to crank

Headlights dim some when trying to crank, but not terribly

What would you look at next??

Thanks


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271443 is a reply to message #271442] Sun, 08 February 2015 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnL455 is currently offline  JohnL455   United States
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Location: Woodstock, IL
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Are those readings at the battery? You either have a bad connection at the battery or the battery is defective.

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271445 is a reply to message #271442] Sun, 08 February 2015 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sgltrac is currently offline  sgltrac   United States
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Trade in. 😜

Sorry. Couldn't help it

Sully
77 royale
Seattle

> On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:10 PM, Keith V wrote:
>
> OK all you star mechanics...
> My Daily driver an 06 sebring convertible.
> failed to crank after sitting over night in may garage, just a click.
> I've owned the car for 4 years so I figure battery...
> Put it in ..Same thing...Click
>
> Starter, obviously...rebuilt from Napa ( oh oh )
> Nope, same thing
> well cables?
> Cleaned and tight.
>
> 12.6 volts with the key off
> 8.5 volts trying to crank
>
> Headlights dim some when trying to crank, but not terribly
>
> What would you look at next??
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Keith Vasilakes
> Mounds View. MN
> 75 ex Royale GMC
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
>
>
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Sully 77 Royale basket case. Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list) Seattle, Wa.
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271446 is a reply to message #271442] Sun, 08 February 2015 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mild bill is currently offline  mild bill   Canada
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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A good battery dropping to 8.5 volts would typically be pulling about 500 amps so you have to have a really bad connection or really bad battery if it drops to 8.5 volts with just a click. Unless the starter is actually engaging and you have something like a seized engine.
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271449 is a reply to message #271446] Sun, 08 February 2015 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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mild bill wrote on Sun, 08 February 2015 21:41
A good battery dropping to 8.5 volts would typically be pulling about 500 amps so you have to have a really bad connection or really bad battery if it drops to 8.5 volts with just a click. Unless the starter is actually engaging and you have something like a seized engine.


Ugh, don't say seized!
It ran perfectly when I parked it...

and yes 8.5 volts at the battery, so something is drawing current...
I did put my 50 amp battery charger / booster on it and no difference.


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271450 is a reply to message #271449] Sun, 08 February 2015 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neal Krisher is currently offline  Neal Krisher   United States
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Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Keith V wrote on Sun, 08 February 2015 21:57

Ugh, don't say seized!
It ran perfectly when I parked it...


I'd see if you can turn the engine over by hand.
Could be a failed accessory like the water pump or alternator. I've seen on some cars where the alt siezed and wouldn't let the car start due to the routing and tension on the serpentine belt.
Another possibility could be a failed head gasket. Park car, pressurized coolant fills a cylinder ...

Hope it's not serious!


"Life has no instruction manual. Parts and labor can be impossible to find. Many go down the road with parts that are in need of service. A breakdown is eventual." 1975 26', TZE165V100301 Project/Driver 1977 26' TZE167V100439 Parts unit
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271451 is a reply to message #271442] Sun, 08 February 2015 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerry pinkerton is currently offline  kerry pinkerton   United States
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I'd probably pull the starter (disconnected battery cables first of course) first and make sure it's not jammed into the flexplate gears. Try to turn the flexplate with a screwdriver. If it moves, have the starter checked. If it doesn't pull the plugs and try to turn via the flexplate or just a ratchet on the big nut on the harmonic balancer. If it still doesn't I'd check the belts and make sure one of the accessories isn't frozen. If they are all free, you got problems in the motor.

Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama Had 5 over the years. Still have the first a 76 that will be rebodied into an art deco car hauler. http://www.bdub.net/pinkerton/ '03 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271454 is a reply to message #271451] Sun, 08 February 2015 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sammy Williams is currently offline  Sammy Williams   United States
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On a buick lesabre I had the same issue a Napa starter. I exchanged it four
times before I got a working one. I'd pull that starter first and test it.
Sammy
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Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271457 is a reply to message #271442] Sun, 08 February 2015 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
habbyguy is currently offline  habbyguy   United States
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I'd turn on the headlights and try the starter. If the lights dim a lot, it's probably a bad battery or connection / cable. If they don't, it's probably a bad starter or possibly cable / connection to the starter. If you can smack the starter with a hammer a couple times and it works, chances are overwhelming it's a bad starter. I doubt that the engine seized up sitting in your garage overnight, BTW...

Mark Hickey Mesa, AZ 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271466 is a reply to message #271457] Mon, 09 February 2015 04:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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Please read the battery voltage again at the battery terminal and not at the cable connected to the battery terminal. I had one where the battery cables were cleaned with a battery steel brush and they still did not make a good connection. I had to go at the cables with a rotary file to clean them enough to make a good connection.

Another test you can do is read the battery voltage and then turn on just the lights and heater fan at full speed. See what the voltage drops to with that load WITHOUT the starter.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271469 is a reply to message #271442] Mon, 09 February 2015 05:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mild bill is currently offline  mild bill   Canada
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Poor connections most common problem, especially with side post.
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271472 is a reply to message #271469] Mon, 09 February 2015 06:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ken Burton is currently offline  Ken Burton   United States
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mild bill wrote on Mon, 09 February 2015 05:38
Poor connections most common problem, especially with side post.


I agree. That is where I was trying to take him by asking him to read the voltage directly at the post. I was not thinking about side post batteries at the time. You can not really get to the posts on that style. If it is side post I would suggest removing the cables, sliding off the protective insulating covers and then cleaning them thoroughly with a coarse wire brush. The battery posts ought to be fairly clean since it is a new battery.


Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271482 is a reply to message #271454] Mon, 09 February 2015 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Sammy Williams wrote on Sun, 08 February 2015 22:31
On a buick lesabre I had the same issue a Napa starter. I exchanged it four
times before I got a working one. I'd pull that starter first and test it.
Sammy
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Part of me is hoping it's the starter, but it's a 4 hour job as you have to pull the front engine mount..
And that mother does NOT want to come out!
Ii think I will try to spin the engine by hand before pulling the starter


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271483 is a reply to message #271442] Mon, 09 February 2015 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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I did try starting with the headlights on and they dim but not a lot, so it seems like the battery is OK.
I'm really betting the engine is jammed somehow, looking back it seems the first couple of cranks turned the engine a little, but now no turn at all...
It really seems hydrolocked, like there was some water in the clyinder, the first crank compressed the air, the second a little more,and now nothing happens since it's all water.

Ii hope hope hope i'm wrong


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271484 is a reply to message #271483] Mon, 09 February 2015 08:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neal Krisher is currently offline  Neal Krisher   United States
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Pull the plugs and hit the key.

"Life has no instruction manual. Parts and labor can be impossible to find. Many go down the road with parts that are in need of service. A breakdown is eventual." 1975 26', TZE165V100301 Project/Driver 1977 26' TZE167V100439 Parts unit
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271486 is a reply to message #271442] Mon, 09 February 2015 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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Keith,

How new is that starter?? I don't usually trust starters even if new in this weather. take a 1/2 broom stick, see if you can get someone to hammer on that starter while you crank it.

depending on starter design, it could of jammed into the flex plate, and not released. hammering on that starter can help that situation as well.

If it is any coincidence of not... starter in 2013 f-150 w/ 68k miles just went out on my thursday morning. and Saturday morning a grand am, at caribou had starter issue. Both started with the broomstick trick, but needed new starters to start off the key.

last winter I was too lazy to deal with my wagoneer for a while, and kept the broomstick with me for at least a month. (I only drive it maybe once a week).

We have red's auto electric here in St. Cloud. I have never had or know someone that has had a starter rebuilt by them go south. I have seen bad starters out of all the box stores, including napa. I usually have to replace my lifetime waranteed starter in my buggy every year. Not sure why?




Jon Roche 75 palm beach St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271505 is a reply to message #271442] Mon, 09 February 2015 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith V is currently offline  Keith V   United States
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Jon I just replaced the starter!
Spent 4 hours
and I doubt I can get at it with a broomstick

I'll be pulling plugs tonight and looking for water.

So if this is a head I'm going to be pissed.
Maybe it's time to find another car...

What convertible should I get.
( no Porches or Corvettes )


Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
69 Vette
29 Dodge
Re: [GMCnet] Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271506 is a reply to message #271505] Mon, 09 February 2015 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dolph Santorine is currently offline  Dolph Santorine   United States
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Mustang.

Or a Cadillac XLR



Dolph

DE N8JPC

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820

1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610



> On Feb 9, 2015, at 1:25 PM, Keith V wrote:
>
> Jon I just replaced the starter!
> Spent 4 hours
> and I doubt I can get at it with a broomstick
>
> I'll be pulling plugs tonight and looking for water.
>
> So if this is a head I'm going to be pissed.
> Maybe it's time to find another car...
>
> What convertible should I get.
> ( no Porches or Corvettes )
> --
> Keith Vasilakes
> Mounds View. MN
> 75 ex Royale GMC
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist

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Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271508 is a reply to message #271505] Mon, 09 February 2015 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neal Krisher is currently offline  Neal Krisher   United States
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Keith V wrote on Mon, 09 February 2015 12:25

What convertible should I get. ( no Porches or Corvettes )



Jeep, then you could have a toad vehicle for the GMC. Win/Win.


"Life has no instruction manual. Parts and labor can be impossible to find. Many go down the road with parts that are in need of service. A breakdown is eventual." 1975 26', TZE165V100301 Project/Driver 1977 26' TZE167V100439 Parts unit
Re: Non GMC Daily driver no crank, new battery, new starter [message #271509 is a reply to message #271442] Mon, 09 February 2015 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
lqqkatjon is currently offline  lqqkatjon   United States
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Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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Senior Member
I have been looking for convertible options, but in reality, I will probably not end up with one...

1st choice is a 73/74 VW thing.

a 97 or newer Jeep Wrangler w/4.0 is always a winner.

or lastly a 92 or older VW cabriolet. cheap and will run forever, and will tow very easily behind the GMC.

and 2 door convertible top chevy/Geo Trackers, or suzuki samauri's are fun too. they also make a convertible 2 door rav4.


Pretty rare to have a head go out in this weather. let us know what you find out. If you need access to fancy code scanner, let me know.



Jon Roche 75 palm beach St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

[Updated on: Mon, 09 February 2015 13:30]

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