| [GMCnet] block off plates [message #208764] |
Sat, 25 May 2013 11:41  |
Kathy and Fred Estabr
Messages: 55
Registered: May 2013
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Help! I am in a world of hurt. Installed Springfield exhaust block off
plates and I guess one of the gaskets moved enough on installation that I
have a major water leak . The black RTV has now set so hard that I can't
get the manifold off. Any suggestions ??
Fred Estabrook
76 Ell
Florence AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] block off plates [message #208765 is a reply to message #208764] |
Sat, 25 May 2013 12:09  |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Sir: I would suggest a good small pry bar such as a lady finger. Try to pry on non gasket areas. Do not drive a screw driver between a gasket area. If you have to, drive a thin putty knife to break seal. Might use a razor knife to cut the ends.
| Kathy and Fred Estabr wrote on Sat, 25 May 2013 12:41 |
Help! I am in a world of hurt. Installed Springfield exhaust block off
plates and I guess one of the gaskets moved enough on installation that I
have a major water leak . The black RTV has now set so hard that I can't
get the manifold off. Any suggestions ??
Fred Estabrook
76 Ell
Florence AZ
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] block off plates [message #208770 is a reply to message #208764] |
Sat, 25 May 2013 15:51 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Kathy and Fred Estabr wrote on Sat, 25 May 2013 12:41 |
Help! I am in a world of hurt. Installed Springfield exhaust block off plates and I guess one of the gaskets moved enough on installation that I have a major water leak . The black RTV has now set so hard that I can't get the manifold off. Any suggestions ??
Fred Estabrook
76 Ell
|
Fred,
The Olds china wall to manifold is .080~.090 (if my memory serves me..), so, yes, the smart thing to do is cut as much of it as you can with a single edged razor or a box cutter. Wet the blade and it will be easier - Armourall will work even better, but be sure you clean it all of before reassembly. The RTV will cut, but with some effort. It is not all that wide (if you recall), but once you get it cut through, you should be able to push a screw driver point in there to make the rest of the cutting go more easily.
JUST DON"T RUSH.
As someone else said, do not pry in there as the casting may fracture even at that light load.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] block off plates [message #208790 is a reply to message #208788] |
Sat, 25 May 2013 22:37 |
Kathy and Fred Estabr
Messages: 55
Registered: May 2013
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Hi Rob
Yes I used black RTV in all a,b c, d and e
Regards Fred
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Dan Gregg <gregg_dan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Robert Mueller wrote on Sat, 25 May 2013 20:29
> > Fred,
> >
> > Before I respond to your query I need you to answer a few questions:
> >
> > Did you apply black RTV:
> >
> > a) between the fiber gasket and the head
> > b) between the stainless steel plate and the head
> > c) between the fiber gasket and the manifold
> > d) between the stainless steel plate and the manifold
> > e) between the front and rear sealing surfaces between the manifold and
> the block
> >
> > A yes or no to each of these will suffice, providing this information
> will let me know just HOW stuck your manifold is!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
>
>
> Dang Rob, you should have been a cop with those kind of questions. :d
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan & Teri Gregg
> Dexter, Mo.
>
> http://danandteri.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] block off plates [message #208820 is a reply to message #208790] |
Sun, 26 May 2013 10:02 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Fred,
You followed the instructions that came with the block off kit which is what I was afraid of; that sucker is on there!
The surface area stuck together at the front and rear of the block is only part of the problem it's the surface area of the manifold
to intake gaskets which is WAY more.
Chuck, Howard, and Matt given you good advice, I'm going to add to their suggestions.
Head down to your local hardware store and buy:
1) 4in x 4in x 6 ft post
2) 3ft of 5/16-18 all thread rod
3) 4ea 5/16in fender washers (largest OD they have)
4) 2ea 5/16-18 nuts
5) 3/4-1in wide putty knife with a riveted on wooden handle if you can find one that has a blade that is completely sandwiched by
the wooden handle it would be great. The thinnest stiffest would be best.
The 4x4 and all thread will be used to make a "puller" that you can use to lift up on the manifold to remove it from the engine
block.
When you get all this stuff home:
1) Radius the edges and corners of the putty knife to remove the sharp 90 degree edges and corners that could gouge the head or
block.
2) Measure the distance from the driver side front to passenger side rear of the engine hatch diagonally directly over two of the
carb hold down bolts and cut the 4 x 4 accordingly.
3) Measure the distance diagonally between the carb mounting 5/16in bolt holes and drill 3/8in holes in the 4 x 4 to match.
4) Lay the 4 x 4 across the engine hatch and measure from the top of the 4x4 down to the carb mounting bolt holes and add 3in to
that measurement.
5) Cut two pieces of 5/16in all thread to that dimension.
You're now ready to start cutting the RTV. Start at the front manifold to block sealing area and push (tap) the putty knife through
the RTV in the middle (or close to the middle) of the area and work outwards.
Move on to the rear manifold to block sealing area.
Once the front and rear have been cut install the manifold puller by laying the 4x4 across the engine hatch opening from the driver
side in the front to the passenger side in the rear. Align the holes in the 4x4 with the carb mounting holes in the manifold and
screw the all thread into the carb mounting bolt holes as far as it will go. It might be a good idea to run a tap down into the
holes to clean them out. I measured the depth of the bolt holes on a spare manifold I have here and the driver side front was 1.3in
deep and the passenger rear was 2in deep so those are the ones I'd use. Place two fender washers over each piece of all thread and
screw down the nuts until they are finger tight. Then tighten each nut sequentially six turns. Since there are 18 threads per inch
on the all thread you have just pulled upwards on the engine 1/3in. This will put upwards tension on the manifold.
Start in the corner that has the water leak as the manifold to head bond will be weakest there; begin forcing the putty knife in
when you've gone about an inch or so swap to the opposite side then go to the opposite corner.
Work your way towards the center of the manifold in an "X" pattern.
In theory sooner or later the manifold should release from the heads.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Estabrook
Hi Rob
Yes I used black RTV in all a,b c, d and e
Regards Fred
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] block off plates [message #208855 is a reply to message #208820] |
Sun, 26 May 2013 13:03 |
Kathy and Fred Estabr
Messages: 55
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Thanks Chuck Howard and Matt and a special thanks to you Rob. This will be
my project next week and I will let you know how I'm doing.
Fred
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Fred,
>
> You followed the instructions that came with the block off kit which is
> what I was afraid of; that sucker is on there!
>
> The surface area stuck together at the front and rear of the block is only
> part of the problem it's the surface area of the manifold
> to intake gaskets which is WAY more.
>
> Chuck, Howard, and Matt given you good advice, I'm going to add to their
> suggestions.
>
> Head down to your local hardware store and buy:
>
> 1) 4in x 4in x 6 ft post
> 2) 3ft of 5/16-18 all thread rod
> 3) 4ea 5/16in fender washers (largest OD they have)
> 4) 2ea 5/16-18 nuts
> 5) 3/4-1in wide putty knife with a riveted on wooden handle if you can
> find one that has a blade that is completely sandwiched by
> the wooden handle it would be great. The thinnest stiffest would be best.
>
> The 4x4 and all thread will be used to make a "puller" that you can use to
> lift up on the manifold to remove it from the engine
> block.
>
> When you get all this stuff home:
>
> 1) Radius the edges and corners of the putty knife to remove the sharp 90
> degree edges and corners that could gouge the head or
> block.
> 2) Measure the distance from the driver side front to passenger side rear
> of the engine hatch diagonally directly over two of the
> carb hold down bolts and cut the 4 x 4 accordingly.
> 3) Measure the distance diagonally between the carb mounting 5/16in bolt
> holes and drill 3/8in holes in the 4 x 4 to match.
> 4) Lay the 4 x 4 across the engine hatch and measure from the top of the
> 4x4 down to the carb mounting bolt holes and add 3in to
> that measurement.
> 5) Cut two pieces of 5/16in all thread to that dimension.
>
> You're now ready to start cutting the RTV. Start at the front manifold to
> block sealing area and push (tap) the putty knife through
> the RTV in the middle (or close to the middle) of the area and work
> outwards.
>
> Move on to the rear manifold to block sealing area.
>
> Once the front and rear have been cut install the manifold puller by
> laying the 4x4 across the engine hatch opening from the driver
> side in the front to the passenger side in the rear. Align the holes in
> the 4x4 with the carb mounting holes in the manifold and
> screw the all thread into the carb mounting bolt holes as far as it will
> go. It might be a good idea to run a tap down into the
> holes to clean them out. I measured the depth of the bolt holes on a spare
> manifold I have here and the driver side front was 1.3in
> deep and the passenger rear was 2in deep so those are the ones I'd use.
> Place two fender washers over each piece of all thread and
> screw down the nuts until they are finger tight. Then tighten each nut
> sequentially six turns. Since there are 18 threads per inch
> on the all thread you have just pulled upwards on the engine 1/3in. This
> will put upwards tension on the manifold.
>
> Start in the corner that has the water leak as the manifold to head bond
> will be weakest there; begin forcing the putty knife in
> when you've gone about an inch or so swap to the opposite side then go to
> the opposite corner.
>
> Work your way towards the center of the manifold in an "X" pattern.
>
> In theory sooner or later the manifold should release from the heads.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Estabrook
>
> Hi Rob
>
> Yes I used black RTV in all a,b c, d and e
>
> Regards Fred
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] block off plates [message #209263 is a reply to message #208889] |
Thu, 30 May 2013 10:59 |
Kathy and Fred Estabr
Messages: 55
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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A note to follow up.
If anybody is thinking of installing block off plates use the jig that Rob
described. It works great for removing and installing the intake manifold.
I installed plates but the gasket moved so I had a water leak . The black
RTV sets up like JB Weld and it was a bitch to remove the manifold but I
finally got it out and now have to order a new gasket.
Fred Estabrook
Florence AZ.
76 Ell
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Fred,
>
> Thanks.
>
> I re-read the procedure and wanted to add something. I am concerned with
> putting too much force on the carb mounting bolt threads /
> manifold / engine / GMC floor. I'm not sure if the following would work
> but it might be worth a shot to see if and when the engine
> moves upwards.
>
> Take a small bubble level and sit it on the carb mounting face. Watch it
> as you tighten the all thread nuts; I believe as you raise
> the engine the bubble should move and as soon as it does stop tightening
> the nuts. If you have a smart phone they have free apps for
> this, I run one called Bubble Level from BRL Technologies on my Samsung.
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:
> gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathy and Fred Estabrook
> Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 1:04 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] block off plates
>
> Thanks Chuck Howard and Matt and a special thanks to you Rob. This will be
> my project next week and I will let you know how I'm doing.
> Fred
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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