Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Road Wonder
| Road Wonder [message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 18:40  |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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Just got back from a camping trip in the GMC. 99.9% problem free. Which is a huge success for us! lol
Have a question for the experts about road wonder.
A little history....I can't describe this well but I'll try my best. I HAD horrible steering. I mean to the point it was simply dangerous to drive this. It was all over the road. Took it to Spectrac (a suspension company for those not in AZ) and it needed a front bearings and (1) knuckle. They also said my gear box was way, way over tight they corrected it.
Much of the problem ended and its much safer to drive. But highway driving in the GMC is something I'd rather never have to do. I avoid it at all cost if possible.
The GMC bounces, sways, swags and seems like a marshmallow driving on the highway. It kinda feels like the steering and body want to do go two different directions at times. Big trucks air pushes me really bad, even a large pickup trucks air can do it as well (not a bad of course)
It seems to be a endless game of steer to the left, steer to the right. Then the body rolls to the left the body rolls to the right.
I have my air ride disconnected and Spectrac taught me how to set the ride height using the frame in the back behind the tires. I've checked it, double checked it, ran it alittle high on the airbags, and it alittle low it doesn't seem to be related.
I have used 80lbs of air in the tires, 70 lbs and its the same.
It has new KYB shocks I installed from one of the gmc sites they mailed them to me so Im sure they are the correct ones. Spectrac said the rear bearings were fine.
I did notice that when driving straight if I move the wheel to the left or right it has a good amount of play. But keep in mind I've never really drove anything from this era.
Just not sure what to check!? Any ideas???!
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109824 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 19:06  |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Tires have too much pressure. Air pressure should be based on the load (scale measured) on the axle. I don't know what tires you are running, but the suspension was designed in the days of bias ply tires. Modern all steel radial tires are very stiff, especially compared to bias ply tires. You can get modern radial tires that have "soft sidewalls"; i.e. Coopers SRM II, that might be closer in flexibility to bias ply. The tire manufacturer should have a chart available showing the relationship between weight on the loaded axle and air pressure to support that load.
I believe a major part of your problem is excess air pressure, making your tires way too stiff.
I used 55 pounds for the fronts, and 50 pounds for the rear sets.
Your mileage may vary. I am also assuming 16" wheels.
Tom Phipps, sans GMC
P.S. Why is your air suspension disconnected?
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
[Updated on: Sun, 26 December 2010 19:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109825 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 19:08 |
Oldngray
Messages: 544
Registered: August 2009
Location: Punta Gorda Florida
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I had similar steering challenges when I first bought my Edgemonte. I did not have loose or play in my Steering box and all of my front end pieces were relatively tight and still the Coach was all over the road.
After having a 6 wheel alignment and weight balanced o all six wheels by Jeff Sirum, all of my steering problems, most of what you described went away.
Those with knowledge of our Coaches will probably have much better ideas which will hopefully help you.
For sure, when you do get it corrected it will be a joy to drive.
Richard MacDonald
Punta Gorda, Florida
Sold our TZE April 2015
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109829 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 19:38 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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Humm, had a 6 wheel alignment done at spectrac. Even though I saw some bushings were dry and I wondered by they didn't mention it. I asked J Sirum via email about this before I had the bearings replaced, he said it sounded like a alignment issue However the problem got better after the bearings and alignment but its still pretty hairy.
I'm running Alcoas with new 225/75/R16 Load "e" tires. I have NOT tried yet 50/55lbs of air. So far 70-80 when they were cold.
I'll check out the links for sure. I may have already read them as I've tired to research this on the forum. But as I type I'm not sure if I've checked them out so I'll do that next click.
I have my air ride disconnected cause because at this moment its beyond the point of working. It needs all new lines. My bags are new however.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109830 is a reply to message #109825] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 19:39 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Michael, be sure to adjust your tire pressures for the load that you are
carrying. Particularly the rear tires. The back end of the coach can and
does steer the front end. When this happens, a driver has a tendency to
correct with the steering wheel. This results in the old Hula Hula
oscillations. Old Navy guys call it the Wig-Wag after the signaling paddles
used between ships. If your tires are all steel belted and load range E,
70#, sounds like too much air pressure. Go to a scale where you can weigh
first the front axle, then the front and 2nd axle, and finally the whole
coach. This will tell you enough about your loaded coach so that you can
apply the weights to the tire inflation charts supplied by the tire
manufacturer, If you have steel belts under the tread with synthetic cords
in the sidewalls, they are not quite as sensitive to inflation pressures as
full steel tires are, but unless you are really heavy, I would think around
55-60# would be closer to what most coaches use. If all this fails to
correct the problem, go back to your alignment guys and have them re check
their work. Steve Ferguson is a knowledge storehouse on GMC suspensions and
he lives in your area. Try to contact him off net & see what he thinks. I
hope this helps you. These coaches, when they are right, are a pleasure to
drive. Hang in there.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Richard MacDonald <rm1936@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I had similar steering challenges when I first bought my Edgemonte. I did
> not have loose or play in my Steering box and all of my front end pieces
> were relatively tight and still the Coach was all over the road.
> After having a 6 wheel alignment and weight balanced o all six wheels by
> Jeff Sirum, all of my steering problems, most of what you described went
> away.
> Those with knowledge of our Coaches will probably have much better ideas
> which will hopefully help you.
> For sure, when you do get it corrected it will be a joy to drive.
>
>
> --
> Richard MacDonald
> Punta Gorda, Florida
> 76 Edgemonte TZE 266V102313
> Celebrating 50 years with my Wife and best friend Nancy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> List Information and Subscription Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109831 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 19:47 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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I'm going to try to correct the tire pressure cause now that you all are saying this is does make sense.
Its hard to describe but now that I'm thinking about it it does fell like bouncy bounce tires and steering to correct it makes it "hula hula"! Spectrac said they did the cost effective fixes (I did tell them I was on a budget) but implied more could be done.
I hope to see Steve F in Casa Grande in January. If the bouncy bounce stuff doesn't get better with tire pressure I may ask him if he could drive it or look at it and give me advise. I've never driven another GMC before so I don't know what a correct one feels like. But I'm 99% sure my GMC is not driving correctly. Its much better then in the past but still "getting there"
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109833 is a reply to message #109831] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 20:14 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 20:47 |
I'm going to try to correct the tire pressure cause now that you all are saying this is does make sense.
Its hard to describe but now that I'm thinking about it it does fell like bouncy bounce tires and steering to correct it makes it "hula hula"! Spectrac said they did the cost effective fixes (I did tell them I was on a budget) but implied more could be done.
I hope to see Steve F in Casa Grande in January. If the bouncy bounce stuff doesn't get better with tire pressure I may ask him if he could drive it or look at it and give me advise. I've never driven another GMC before so I don't know what a correct one feels like. But I'm 99% sure my GMC is not driving correctly. Its much better then in the past but still "getting there"
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Sir: did you get a read out on the 6 wheel alignment? If so what was the caster, camber and toe you ended up with??
Since you have play in the steering wheel you need a helper to rock the steering wheel back and forth in the dead spot and LOOK under the drivers hood at the steering shaft from the column to the box. Then Look to see if the box has any lost motion. Then crawl under it with a good light and LOOK at the relay lever movement. It should go sideways only, no up and down movement or lost motion in either end. (it goes from the steering box rod to a boomerang shaped lever that has a center pivot bolt [250-300lb torque] across the cross member and hooks to the tie rod (behind the cross member) which is fastened on each end to the knuckles to steer. Also on the pass side of the tie rod is an idler arm. So if the relay lever should move up and down try tightening the pivot bolt. Look at each and every joint and look for play while your helper is rocking the wheel with the engine off. Helper should rock right to left as hard as possible without turning the wheels after you get past the steering box. The idler arm should have no up and down movement either.
Any lost motion anywhere should be corrected. Good Luck. It is simple to do, just hard to explain.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109835 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 20:25 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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I'll have to check work tomorrow for the spectrac paperwork on the 6 wheel align settings. I know they gave it to me. They stated that the alignment was off cause they said the last shop aligned it with bad front bearings. I believe that, they did mechanic work like I'd do heart surgery.
I know you guys must laugh at me. But before I can weigh my coach, going back to tire pressure (I'm going to have a friend help me with the steering suggestions at work in the next few weeks I should be able to get him to help me out) should I be at 55 or so pounds when the tires are cold? Im guessing since my tires were set to near 75 Lbs cold, they must of gone up a lot driving so the pressure may have been way, way off. This is where I'm going to start. It did feel like my tires were bouncing.
My steering may be worn a little. Spectrac only noted the problem on the gear box, but I'm sure it needs to be checked like your suggesting.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Sun, 26 December 2010 20:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109840 is a reply to message #109835] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 21:05 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 20:25 |
I'll have to check work tomorrow for the spectrac paperwork on the 6 wheel align settings. I know they gave it to me. They stated that the alignment was off cause they said the last shop aligned it with bad front bearings. I believe that, they did mechanic work like I'd do heart surgery.
I know you guys must laugh at me. But before I can weigh my coach, going back to tire pressure (I'm going to have a friend help me with the steering suggestions at work in the next few weeks I should be able to get him to help me out) should I be at 55 or so pounds when the tires are cold? Im guessing since my tires were set to near 75 Lbs cold, they must of gone up a lot driving so the pressure may have been way, way off. This is where I'm going to start. It did feel like my tires were bouncing.
My steering may be worn a little. Spectrac only noted the problem on the gear box, but I'm sure it needs to be checked like your suggesting.
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Not to argue with TOM, but without weighing the coach I would try 60 PSI. Then check the tire temperature all the way around after driving it 50 or so miles to make sure they are not getting too hot. You can use one of these cheap temperature guns but I usually just walk around and feel all of the tires every time I stop on a trip. You will easily feel if one of the tires is too warm compared to the others. Also remember that one side will be hotter if you are driving in the sun. I run (cold) 60 PSI in the rears and 65 PSI in the front. That is about 5 PSI higher than what is necessary on my coach based on weighing my coach.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109841 is a reply to message #109835] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 21:13 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 21:25 |
I'll have to check work tomorrow for the spectrac paperwork on the 6 wheel align settings. I know they gave it to me. They stated that the alignment was off cause they said the last shop aligned it with bad front bearings. I believe that, they did mechanic work like I'd do heart surgery.
I know you guys must laugh at me. But before I can weigh my coach, going back to tire pressure (I'm going to have a friend help me with the steering suggestions at work in the next few weeks I should be able to get him to help me out) should I be at 55 or so pounds when the tires are cold? Im guessing since my tires were set to near 75 Lbs cold, they must of gone up a lot driving so the pressure may have been way, way off. This is where I'm going to start. It did feel like my tires were bouncing.
My steering may be worn a little. Spectrac only noted the problem on the gear box, but I'm sure it needs to be checked like your suggesting.
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Sir: I believe Michelin and Goodyear have tire pressure charts per size and weight. I would look for a web site for your tire brand and check for weight - pressure chart. Most suggest +5 lb for speeds over 65? My 23 weighs 9600 and I run 60 all the way around on 16" Dunlops E rated. Temp makes a difference on mine, about -10lb from hot summer to cold winter, spare also.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109842 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 21:24 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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I bought some off brand tires. Capital are on the rear sold at "tire pros" and the fronts are the next grade up they said "Roadian HT", can't remember the brand. But I can check.
Please I'm not trying to argue just asking cause I haven't a clue. But can 10-15 lbs of over inflation make that much difference in ride quality. If it does I'll be happy as a clam! I'd think it could since I'm sure when they get hot 10-15 lbs goes up to 20+ over inflated.
I tested my tire pressure today at the camp site after 4 days of sitting, and it was cold out. Maybe 45-50 degrees....
Fronts were 80 lbs cold (I let out 10 lbs before leaving for the drive home and road wonder still was bad)
Rears were at 72lbs cold, I just let them be at that.
I think I'll start at 55-60 lbs and see how that goes. I never thought of going so low.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109849 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 22:23 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Mr.RadioActive wrote on Sun, 26 December 2010 16:40 |
<<snipped>> The GMC bounces, sways, swags and seems like a marshmallow driving on the highway. It kinda feels like the steering and body want to do go two different directions at times. Big trucks air pushes me really bad, ... <<snipped>>
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Michael,
You have been given some excellent advice. Most steering problems are front end related. But keep in mind that we are talking about a 1973.
'73 coaches are more likely to have loose boogie bushings due to the smaller bushings with poorly designed grease passages. If these bushings are loose, the coach will drive like it has casters on the rear wheels... bad casters at that! You can check the bushings when you have the tires off and pressure out of the air bags. (Note that you shouldn't jack the coach with fully pressurized air bags. It is VERY hard on the shocks.) Jack up the hub end of the boogie and prop it at close to ride height with a 1x2 stick, pipe or something that will not restrict side to side movement. Push and pull on the hub end of the boogie... there shouldn't be much, if any, "slop" in the boogie bushings. The maintenance manual has the actual "spec".
Spectrac might be the best shop in the world for most suspension systems but they might not know enough about the odd-ball boogie system on our GMC's.
A couple of notes on tire pressures:
1. I would not go under "60 PSI in the rears and 65 PSI in the front" unless you KNOW how much weight is on the tires--for safety purposes.
2. Tire pressures are designed to be checked cold. DO NOT let out air when the tires get hot... that will make them under design pressure and make them get even hotter.
One of the reasons for the Firestone/Ford tire failures (and crashes) was tire under inflation. (There where other reasons but we do not need to go there...)
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109850 is a reply to message #109821] |
Sun, 26 December 2010 22:24 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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To be honest I'm not to sure whats been really "checked" I have had it at a suspension "specialist" place here in AZ. I'm going to try to lower the tire pressure and report back.
Its a ton better then when I first bought it, and the front bearings made a huge difference. Its amazing however the "suspension" company never mentioned or looked at tire pressure. I'll start out with a easy try, then work my way from there. They also didn't tell me my bushings were dry and cracked.
Spectrac checked the rear bearings. They said "Jerry" told me he was a part of the original suspension group that helped with our suspension on the GMC. They said the rear bearings were good still. I hope they were right. After I check the air pressure it doesn't sound hard to check the rear bearings myself using the suggestions above. Sounds fairly cut and dry.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
[Updated on: Sun, 26 December 2010 22:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109854 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 00:32 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Michael,
To help us help you troubleshoot the problem we need some additional
information:
1) What brand of tires / size are on your GMC?
2) Are they all steel belted or do they have fabric sidewalls?
3) "Normal" tire pressure in a GMC is around 60 psi why are you running
80/70?
4) Exactly what did Spectrac "teach" you vis-à-vis setting the ride height?
5) The following is a step by step procedure to check for play in the
steering system that could contribute to the amount of play in the steering
wheel starting at the bottom of the steering column and working your way out
to both the wheels. YES it is long and YES it's going to take you some time
to go through it but when you're done you will KNOW where there is play in
the system and how it is effecting your steering. You will note I have
instructed you to record the amount of relative motion of two areas quite
often throughout this procedure, you may find it easier to put your fingers
on the parts I've noted to feel the play. PLEASE BE careful not to get your
fingers pinched! If your assistant only moves the steering wheel an inch or
two each direction that is unlikely to happen but still be careful!
I have scanned and posted an annotated copy of the page out of the Parts
Book 78Z so you can locate each of the areas.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37249
The circled numbers on the photo relate to the step numbers in the text
below.
1) Have an assistant sit in the driver's seat and start the engine.
2) Open the driver's side hood
3) Direct your attention to the end of the Steering Column where the CV
joint attaches. Have your assistant turn the wheel a small amount (inch or
two) to the left and then back to the right. Watch/feel for relative motion
between the end of the steering column housing and the shaft. There is a
bearing/retainer/adapter (Ref 78Z Page 16-8/9 Keys 31/33/34) in the end of
the housing that if any of them failed it would allow the column to move.
Record your findings.
4) Direct your attention to the top and bottom of the CV joint below the end
of the steering column. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for relative motion between the upper and lower section of
the CV joint. The top and bottom should rotate the same amount. If the top
and bottom do not move in unison that's play and depending on how much it
may be unacceptable. Record your findings.
5) Direct your attention to the Shaft assembly below the CV joint. Have your
assistant move the steering wheel left and right. Watch/feel for relative
motion between the blue section and the housing it slides into below it. If
the blue section moves inside the housing that's play and may be
unacceptable depending on how much it moves. Record your findings.
6) Direct your attention to the universal joint at the bottom of the housing
the blue shaft slides into. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left
and right. Watch/feel for relative motion between the upper and lower
sections of the universal joint. Once again the two sections should move in
unison. It is not uncommon for the bolt that holds the lower section to the
steering box spline not to be tight enough which allows the lower part to
move. Record your findings.
7) Direct your attention to the input shaft of Steering Box and output shaft
of the Steering Box that the Pitman Arm is attached to. Have your assistant
move the steering wheel left and right. Watch/feel for relative motion
between the input and output shaft of the steering box. They should move in
unison. Record your findings. Note: you may have to be under the GMC to
perform this step.
The following steps will have to be done from under the GMC. You may not be
able to crawl under it far enough to check the items properly without
jacking it up. If I am correct jack up the front end just high enough to
provide access leaving the tires in contact with the ground to provide
resistance to turning. As always use jack stands, make sure the GMC is in
Park, the hand brake is on and the rear wheels are chocked.
8) Direct your attention to the Tie Rod End on the Drag Link that attaches
it to the Pitman arm. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
9) Direct your attention to the Tie Rod End on the Drag Link that attaches
to the Relay Lever. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
10) Direct your attention to the Relay Lever pivot point where it attaches
to the frame cross member. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left
and right. Watch/feel for relative motion between Relay Lever and the cross
member. Record your findings. Note: a worn pivot point will allow the Relay
Lever to move up and down on or rock front to back like a see saw.
11) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the Relay Lever that
attaches it to the Relay Rod. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
left and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the
shaft. Record your findings.
12) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Driver Side Knuckle at the Relay
Rod end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
Rod End. Record your findings.
13) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the Tie Rod end on the
Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Driver Side Knuckle at the Driver
Side Knuckle end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
14) Direct your attention to the bolt and bushing that attach the Idler Arm
to the frame cross member. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left
and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between Idler Arm and the cross
member. Note: a worn Idler Arm bushing/bolt will rise and fall as the
steering wheel is turned left and right. Record your findings.
15) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the end of the Idler Arm
that attaches to the Relay Rod. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
left and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the
shaft of the Tie Rod End.
16) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Passenger Side Knuckle at the
Relay Rod end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
Rod End. Record your findings.
17) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
Tie Rod that attaches the Relay Rod to the Passenger Side Knuckle at the
Knuckle end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
Rod End. Record your findings.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:41 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
Just got back from a camping trip in the GMC. 99.9% problem free. Which is a
huge success for us! lol
Have a question for the experts about road wonder.
A little history....I can't describe this well but I'll try my best. I HAD
horrible steering. I mean to the point it was simply dangerous to drive
this. It was all over the road. Took it to Spectrac (a suspension company
for those not in AZ) and it needed a front bearings and (1) knuckle. They
also said my gear box was way, way over tight they corrected it.
Much of the problem ended and its much safer to drive. But highway driving
in the GMC is something I'd rather never have to do. I avoid it at all cost
if possible.
The GMC bounces, sways, swags and seems like a marshmallow driving on the
highway. It kinda feels like the steering and body want to do go two
different directions at times. Big trucks air pushes me really bad, even a
large pickup trucks air can do it as well (not a bad of course)
It seems to be a endless game of steer to the left, steer to the right. Then
the body rolls to the left the body rolls to the right.
I have my air ride disconnected and Spectrac taught me how to set the ride
height using the frame in the back behind the tires. I've checked it, double
checked it, ran it alittle high on the airbags, and it alittle low it
doesn't seem to be related.
I have used 80lbs of air in the tires, 70 lbs and its the same.
It has new KYB shocks I installed from one of the gmc sites they mailed them
to me so Im sure they are the correct ones. Spectrac said the rear bearings
were fine.
I did notice that when driving straight if I move the wheel to the left or
right it has a good amount of play. But keep in mind I've never really drove
anything from this era.
Just not sure what to check!? Any ideas???!
--
1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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GMCnet mailing list
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Road Wonder [message #109855 is a reply to message #109821] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 00:56 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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When you replaced the tires, did you notice any unusual wear patterns?
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder [message #109859 is a reply to message #109854] |
Mon, 27 December 2010 06:23 |
peter bailey
Messages: 367
Registered: March 2009
Location: Gawler, South Australia
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
I thought you might have had a wonder at what the wander was all about.
You have asked for more information.
Peter Bailey
from Ozy (Aussie)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
Michael,
To help us help you troubleshoot the problem we need some additional
information:
1) What brand of tires / size are on your GMC?
2) Are they all steel belted or do they have fabric sidewalls?
3) "Normal" tire pressure in a GMC is around 60 psi why are you running
80/70?
4) Exactly what did Spectrac "teach" you vis-à-vis setting the ride height?
5) The following is a step by step procedure to check for play in the
steering system that could contribute to the amount of play in the steering
wheel starting at the bottom of the steering column and working your way out
to both the wheels. YES it is long and YES it's going to take you some time
to go through it but when you're done you will KNOW where there is play in
the system and how it is effecting your steering. You will note I have
instructed you to record the amount of relative motion of two areas quite
often throughout this procedure, you may find it easier to put your fingers
on the parts I've noted to feel the play. PLEASE BE careful not to get your
fingers pinched! If your assistant only moves the steering wheel an inch or
two each direction that is unlikely to happen but still be careful!
I have scanned and posted an annotated copy of the page out of the Parts
Book 78Z so you can locate each of the areas.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=37249
The circled numbers on the photo relate to the step numbers in the text
below.
1) Have an assistant sit in the driver's seat and start the engine.
2) Open the driver's side hood
3) Direct your attention to the end of the Steering Column where the CV
joint attaches. Have your assistant turn the wheel a small amount (inch or
two) to the left and then back to the right. Watch/feel for relative motion
between the end of the steering column housing and the shaft. There is a
bearing/retainer/adapter (Ref 78Z Page 16-8/9 Keys 31/33/34) in the end of
the housing that if any of them failed it would allow the column to move.
Record your findings.
4) Direct your attention to the top and bottom of the CV joint below the end
of the steering column. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for relative motion between the upper and lower section of
the CV joint. The top and bottom should rotate the same amount. If the top
and bottom do not move in unison that's play and depending on how much it
may be unacceptable. Record your findings.
5) Direct your attention to the Shaft assembly below the CV joint. Have your
assistant move the steering wheel left and right. Watch/feel for relative
motion between the blue section and the housing it slides into below it. If
the blue section moves inside the housing that's play and may be
unacceptable depending on how much it moves. Record your findings.
6) Direct your attention to the universal joint at the bottom of the housing
the blue shaft slides into. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left
and right. Watch/feel for relative motion between the upper and lower
sections of the universal joint. Once again the two sections should move in
unison. It is not uncommon for the bolt that holds the lower section to the
steering box spline not to be tight enough which allows the lower part to
move. Record your findings.
7) Direct your attention to the input shaft of Steering Box and output shaft
of the Steering Box that the Pitman Arm is attached to. Have your assistant
move the steering wheel left and right. Watch/feel for relative motion
between the input and output shaft of the steering box. They should move in
unison. Record your findings. Note: you may have to be under the GMC to
perform this step.
The following steps will have to be done from under the GMC. You may not be
able to crawl under it far enough to check the items properly without
jacking it up. If I am correct jack up the front end just high enough to
provide access leaving the tires in contact with the ground to provide
resistance to turning. As always use jack stands, make sure the GMC is in
Park, the hand brake is on and the rear wheels are chocked.
8) Direct your attention to the Tie Rod End on the Drag Link that attaches
it to the Pitman arm. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
9) Direct your attention to the Tie Rod End on the Drag Link that attaches
to the Relay Lever. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
10) Direct your attention to the Relay Lever pivot point where it attaches
to the frame cross member. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left
and right. Watch/feel for relative motion between Relay Lever and the cross
member. Record your findings. Note: a worn pivot point will allow the Relay
Lever to move up and down on or rock front to back like a see saw.
11) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the Relay Lever that
attaches it to the Relay Rod. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
left and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the
shaft. Record your findings.
12) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Driver Side Knuckle at the Relay
Rod end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
Rod End. Record your findings.
13) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the Tie Rod end on the
Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Driver Side Knuckle at the Driver
Side Knuckle end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and
right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of
the Tie Rod End. Record your findings.
14) Direct your attention to the bolt and bushing that attach the Idler Arm
to the frame cross member. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left
and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between Idler Arm and the cross
member. Note: a worn Idler Arm bushing/bolt will rise and fall as the
steering wheel is turned left and right. Record your findings.
15) Direct your attention to the ball and socket on the end of the Idler Arm
that attaches to the Relay Rod. Have your assistant move the steering wheel
left and right. Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the
shaft of the Tie Rod End.
16) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
Tie Rod that connects the Relay Rod to the Passenger Side Knuckle at the
Relay Rod end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
Rod End. Record your findings.
17) Direct your attention to the ball and socket of the Tie Rod End on the
Tie Rod that attaches the Relay Rod to the Passenger Side Knuckle at the
Knuckle end. Have your assistant move the steering wheel left and right.
Watch/feel for lateral motion between ball/socket and the shaft of the Tie
Rod End. Record your findings.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:41 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Road Wonder
Just got back from a camping trip in the GMC. 99.9% problem free. Which is a
huge success for us! lol
Have a question for the experts about road wonder.
A little history....I can't describe this well but I'll try my best. I HAD
horrible steering. I mean to the point it was simply dangerous to drive
this. It was all over the road. Took it to Spectrac (a suspension company
for those not in AZ) and it needed a front bearings and (1) knuckle. They
also said my gear box was way, way over tight they corrected it.
Much of the problem ended and its much safer to drive. But highway driving
in the GMC is something I'd rather never have to do. I avoid it at all cost
if possible.
The GMC bounces, sways, swags and seems like a marshmallow driving on the
highway. It kinda feels like the steering and body want to do go two
different directions at times. Big trucks air pushes me really bad, even a
large pickup trucks air can do it as well (not a bad of course)
It seems to be a endless game of steer to the left, steer to the right. Then
the body rolls to the left the body rolls to the right.
I have my air ride disconnected and Spectrac taught me how to set the ride
height using the frame in the back behind the tires. I've checked it, double
checked it, ran it alittle high on the airbags, and it alittle low it
doesn't seem to be related.
I have used 80lbs of air in the tires, 70 lbs and its the same.
It has new KYB shocks I installed from one of the gmc sites they mailed them
to me so Im sure they are the correct ones. Spectrac said the rear bearings
were fine.
I did notice that when driving straight if I move the wheel to the left or
right it has a good amount of play. But keep in mind I've never really drove
anything from this era.
Just not sure what to check!? Any ideas???!
--
1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Casa Grande, AZ
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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