Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Dash A/C recharge (Air Conditioning)
| Dash A/C recharge [message #88426] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 17:44  |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
Karma: 0
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GMCer's
My dash a/c is not putting out cold air. I read all the posts on Duracool but NAPA said I could not buy it anymore. I bought the conversion kit from R12 to R134. Came with the adaptor, a can of oil neutralizer and three cans of R134.
I changed the adaptor and connected the oil neutralizer then installed two of the three cans. Noticed the compressor was not turning so I jumpered the low pressure switch. Compressor started turning but did not sound like it was compressing. Attached the third can or R134 and it took all that also. Still no cold air. Removed the jumper and the compressor stopped turning.
Do I need to put in another can?
Is my compressor bad?
Any ideas would be appreciated.
When I remove the pin from the schrader valve to put on the R134 adaptor, there was no pressure coming out at all.
Thanks
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88430 is a reply to message #88426] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 17:58  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| MikeT wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 18:44 |
GMCer's
My dash a/c is not putting out cold air. I read all the posts on Duracool but NAPA said I could not buy it anymore. I bought the conversion kit from R12 to R134. Came with the adaptor, a can of oil neutralizer and three cans of R134.
I changed the adaptor and connected the oil neutralizer then installed two of the three cans. Noticed the compressor was not turning so I jumpered the low pressure switch. Compressor started turning but did not sound like it was compressing. Attached the third can or R134 and it took all that also. Still no cold air. Removed the jumper and the compressor stopped turning.
Do I need to put in another can?
Is my compressor bad?
Any ideas would be appreciated.
When I remove the pin from the schrader valve to put on the R134 adaptor, there was no pressure coming out at all.
Thanks
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Mike,
There is a lot wrong here..
The guy from NAPA said you couldn't buy Duracool and you believed him without doing any research? He may have been trying to tell you that he can't sell you Duracool or any other HC-12(a).
It sounds like you bough a service kit that is a few cans and tapper-connector.
Did you just connect the can to the low fitting or do you have a service gauge set?
If you are changing from R-12 to R134A, the system must be cleaned of old oil (I don't care what they tell you, R-134A will react with the mineral based oil that is in an R-12 system), then evacuated as R-134A will react with any moisture that enters with atmospheric air and form corrosive products.
If the system had no residual pressure, then it is almost certain that air has entered. You may need more work than you thought.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88438 is a reply to message #88433] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 18:30 |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Emery and Matt,
i did use the kit. Hope I didn't do any permanent damage. As I posted, I changed the adaptor and used the oil that came with the kit. Filled with the three cans and still no cold air. I put it in the hose that did not have the low pressure switch on it. Had to jumper the low pressure switch to get the compressor to engage. Still no cold air after the third can.
Where do I go from here? Can I buy the Duracool and fill overtop of the R134 that I put in today? Or should l do something else?
I was not using a pressure gage, just hooked the cans up with the hose that came with it and let them flow.
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88443 is a reply to message #88438] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 18:41 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On Jun 13, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Thomas Mike wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Emery and Matt,
>
> i did use the kit. Hope I didn't do any permanent damage. As I posted, I changed the adaptor and used the oil that came with the kit. Filled with the three cans and still no cold air. I put it in the hose that did not have the low pressure switch on it. Had to jumper the low pressure switch to get the compressor to engage. Still no cold air after the third can.
>
> Where do I go from here? Can I buy the Duracool and fill overtop of the R134 that I put in today? Or should l do something else?
>
> I was not using a pressure gage, just hooked the cans up with the hose that came with it and let them flow.
> --
> Mike Thomas
> Troy, MI
> 77 Eleganza II
Unless you drained and flushed out the original mineral oil before adding the R134a you have a situation that will probably eventually clog up your system.
I would
1. open the hoses and flush out the system including the evaporator and condenser and compressor.
2. throw away the old drier and replace it with a new one.
3. after a good flushing install the drier and reconnect the hoses.
4. put the correct amount of oil into the compressor
5. vacuum pump the system to remove all traces of flush solvent, R134a and moisture.
6. install Duracool or HC12a.
This is going to be a lot of work and expense. Too bad you didn't post your message to the gmcnet before installing the R134a.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88449 is a reply to message #88443] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 19:02 |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
As you can see I am not an air conditioning guy. Looks like I might need to take it in and have a professional do the flush, drier and recharge. Any idea how much this will cost? The kit was $46.00 and I thought it was a do it yourself process.
What do I flush the system with if I continue to do it myself? Where do I get a new drier? Where do I purchase Duracool or HC12a? I'm sure the GMC manual will show me how to add oil and what type to the compressor.
Do you think I did any permanent damage?
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88450 is a reply to message #88426] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 19:02 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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R134a is OK in vehicles that were originally designed to run it and it's associated oil and system component sizings. That's about as far as I'l go with that. I'd never go and convert an R12 system to anything but R12 or HC12. And R12 is still available if you look around. It sounds like it's flush time.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88473 is a reply to message #88443] |
Sun, 13 June 2010 21:38 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Mike,
One other question to ask here is why did it stop cooling in the first
place. Was there a leak in the system and was that fixed? One other
thing that I would add to Emery list is to change all the O-rings. I
would put the green o-rings back in.
The problem that you will have is finding a shop to work on it. No
licenced shops in Michigan will install Duracool or HC12. Your only
option is to have the system cleaned and flushed dryer replaced,
vacuum checked and recharge with 134.
Contact me offline.
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
TZE Zone Restorations
77 Eleganza Custom (For Sale)
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On Jun 13, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
> On Jun 13, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Thomas Mike wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Emery and Matt,
>>
>> i did use the kit. Hope I didn't do any permanent damage. As I
>> posted, I changed the adaptor and used the oil that came with the
>> kit. Filled with the three cans and still no cold air. I put it in
>> the hose that did not have the low pressure switch on it. Had to
>> jumper the low pressure switch to get the compressor to engage.
>> Still no cold air after the third can.
>>
>> Where do I go from here? Can I buy the Duracool and fill overtop of
>> the R134 that I put in today? Or should l do something else?
>>
>> I was not using a pressure gage, just hooked the cans up with the
>> hose that came with it and let them flow.
>> --
>> Mike Thomas
>> Troy, MI
>> 77 Eleganza II
> Unless you drained and flushed out the original mineral oil before
> adding the R134a you have a situation that will probably eventually
> clog up your system.
>
> I would
>
> 1. open the hoses and flush out the system including the evaporator
> and condenser and compressor.
> 2. throw away the old drier and replace it with a new one.
> 3. after a good flushing install the drier and reconnect the hoses.
> 4. put the correct amount of oil into the compressor
> 5. vacuum pump the system to remove all traces of flush solvent,
> R134a and moisture.
> 6. install Duracool or HC12a.
>
>
> This is going to be a lot of work and expense. Too bad you didn't
> post your message to the gmcnet before installing the R134a.
>
>
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88500 is a reply to message #88473] |
Mon, 14 June 2010 07:36 |
MikeT
Messages: 225
Registered: November 2009
Location: Marine City, Michigan
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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JR,
The coach sat for 5 years before I purchased. The A/C did not work when I bought it. No PO to ask questions. I assumed the freon evaporated after 5 years or possible leak. Guess I did not get lucky on this one.
I am shocked that NAPA would sell a kit for do it yourselfers to convert R12 to R134 if it will cause that much damage.
Mike Thomas
Marine City, MI
77 ex Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88508 is a reply to message #88500] |
Mon, 14 June 2010 08:55 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| MikeT wrote on Mon, 14 June 2010 08:36 |
JR,
The coach sat for 5 years before I purchased. The A/C did not work when I bought it. No PO to ask questions. I assumed the freon evaporated after 5 years or possible leak. Guess I did not get lucky on this one.
I am shocked that NAPA would sell a kit for do it yourselfers to convert R12 to R134 if it will cause that much damage.
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Mike,
You still may not be in bad shape, it all comes down to how big the leak was.
As to NAPA, I'm not surprised that anybody will sell anything that can be sold. But, as a friend of mine said (after politely listening through a rant), do not mistake incompetence for malevolence. They (NAPA) has to know that there is an issue as I was told that they will warranty an AC compressor if the purchaser can not document a system flush to remove old lubricant. For some reason I don't completely understand, more modern vehicles are more tolerant of the conversion to 134 (it still doesn't cool worth a S).
Keep us apprised of what you manage. If you get hung up, I will ofter to help, but I am down by Metro Airport and I will not be able to transport my vacuum pump for a while.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88513 is a reply to message #88508] |
Mon, 14 June 2010 09:50 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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NAPA has gone downhill lately, they used to be THE place.
now I'd rather go to CarQuest or O'Riley.
But no one will sell R12a ( duracool), you have to buy it online.
As far as your AC goes, I'd bet it has a leak and all the R134 you added just leaked out...
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash A/C recharge [message #88533 is a reply to message #88521] |
Mon, 14 June 2010 11:43 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I agree, the oil needs to be cleaned out. Sounds like fun!
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88623 is a reply to message #88611] |
Tue, 15 June 2010 02:36 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Richard,
The last time I was north of the border I saw Duracool for sale at Walmart. I do not remember whether it was in Medicine Hat, Brandon, or Winnipeg, but if one Walmart has it probably most of the others should have it.
Also the Duracool Canada site says that most Walmarts have it.
http://www.coolearthinc.com/distributors.htm
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88649 is a reply to message #88426] |
Tue, 15 June 2010 09:16 |
Rusty
Messages: 197
Registered: October 2005
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Karma: 0
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Our Napa's are still the go to place for me. The guys behind the counter actually try to help you. Untrue for pep boys or autozone or advance auto. Those places are box stores, I can't stand them.
Anyway I bought a flush kit from Napa, and the expensive chemical they sell for flushing. Its like 40 bucks a quart. You can use mineral spirits to flush the first few flushes, but always use the expensive stuff for the last flush or two.
Of course always replace the dryer, but in this case if the hoses are original or old, replace them, too, they are not that expensive. My Napa has high pressure hose fitting equipment so they can make them on the spot for me. That leaves you the compressor, condenser and evaporator to flush. The expansion valve may need to be replaced, I would just go with a new one, relatively inexpensive but critical component.
The A6 compressor is a work horse but I do not trust remanufactured ones. 50-50 shot. I bought a new Delco A6, 3 yrs ago, it was $450. Now they are close to $800. Some people on this board have rebuilt them by themselves. Others have retro fitted Sanden compressors.
Really doing the A/C right, is expensive and difficult for the average shade tree. But its also expensive to have it done by a pro. The GMC OEM dash air is typical of the 70's technology. Most of the cold air is lost in the duct work. BUT, assuming your compressor is OK, and you dont want new lines, buying a flush kit (you need an air compressor to run it) and flush may set you back only a couple hundred bucks. The Duracool is cheap, buy it on line. Flush everything good, use new green or blue o-rings, pull a vacuum (pumps are about another hundred bucks). The gauge tree tool is another hundred. VERIFY no leaks by waiting a day or 2, once you have a sealed system charge it up with between 2 and 4 cans, your probably going to be OK. Figure 500 bucks total. Thats why some people just spend another hundred or two to have an expert do it. After buying the vacuum pump, gauge tree and flush kit, I only used them once. Now they sit. If you were near philly I would sell them all to you for half price LOL.
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88672 is a reply to message #88649] |
Tue, 15 June 2010 12:15 |
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I see Harbor has a gauge set on sale for $30.00 Probably not great but for the few times we'd need it, would work OK. I am going to buy a set unless Roy discourages me.
geo groth '73 260 Sequoia
Carson City Nevada 89703
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88684 is a reply to message #88672] |
Tue, 15 June 2010 14:51 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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I just purchased one of those sets for $26 and it seems perfectly adequate--just used it on my neighbour's GMC and gave him my older set. As far as converting to 134, I did so on my GMC probably 10 years ago and never looked back. I did not remove the old oil or anything else. Mine is a 78 unit and I noticed a slight reduction in output but it is still perfectly adequate in 100 + temps here in AZ. I recall at the time that there were many nay sayers about this but frankly I have not had any problems in thousands of miles of usage. I don't think I've added any for at least 5 years if ever since the retrofit. At the time when I had some older cars as well, I made the same conversion and from what I hear are still performing just fine. I have nothing against duracool--I just didn't know about it at the time. I have several friends in Michigan running 134 with absolutely no issues.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88724 is a reply to message #88426] |
Tue, 15 June 2010 17:30 |
Rusty
Messages: 197
Registered: October 2005
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Duracool gives a little more cooling but a possible bigger issue is, because of the larger molecule it causes the compressor to build up considerably less head pressure, so less stress on it. I run 134 in my coach because its dash air is not OEM and has all new components. Its ice cold. I ran Duracool in my corvettes.
Rusty
75 Glenbrook
Philadelphia Pa
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| Re: Dash A/C recharge [message #88742 is a reply to message #88672] |
Tue, 15 June 2010 19:19 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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George
If you want a set of gages I have a set you can have but they are not shiny new.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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