Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures
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| Re: Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82794 is a reply to message #82683] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 15:27   |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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At the risk of sounding accusatory (and I want to avoid that at all cost) is the lesson to be learned from this fire to make sure that the propane valve is off when driving? Is this a discipline that we have to develop as an owners group, keeping these sobering pictures in mind?
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82800 is a reply to message #82799] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 16:33 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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On May 2, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Larry Davick wrote:
> Yikes! I've only turned off my propane when refilling the propane tank. Am I a driving time bomb? How do you keep the fridge cold?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 2, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Randy <Acrosport2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> At the risk of sounding accusatory (and I want to avoid that at all cost) is the lesson to be learned from this fire to make sure that the propane valve is off when driving? Is this a discipline that we have to develop as an owners group, keeping these sobering pictures in mind?
>> --
>> Randy
>> 1973 26' Painted Desert
>> Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
This subject has been on the net a few times times in the past and people seem to be somewhat divided on this issue. I have owned 4 motorhomes over the last 42 years (my GMC now for 29 years) and I have used my propane while driving to power the refrigerator, stove and the furnace with all of them. The flammable range of the air / propane ratio required for combustion is fairly narrow. With too little air it will not ignite and the same goes for too much air - so I feel that propane is very safe. It also has the odor added so even a very small leak is quickly recognized.
However, gasoline has a very wide range of flammability and is much more dangerous than propane and we sure do drive our GMCs while have full tanks of gasoline. However, I don't see anyone suggesting that we turn off our gasolline while we drive! Are you also planning to turn off your propane while parked and sleeping at night? Good luck keeping warm in the winter.
One should, however, check the propane lines and fittings periodically for leaks. I use a commercial leak detector solution which I purchased at a hardware store (I think Lowe's also sells it). It is basically a soap solution but will detect very tiny leaks and is also not corrosive as soap might be. I try to check my lines in the spring and just before winter.
The refrigerator runs much better on propane than electric (assuming that you have a two way or three way -- propane and 120 volt or 12 volt). The furnace is almost essential if you have people riding in the rear in the cold of winter. I used to travel with 4 kids and the furnace was needed to keep the back end warm.
I still will continue to use my propane while enroute.
At first several people were blaming the muffler for the Jim and Marlys coach file. Now it seems that some are figuring that the propane did it. I would suggest that speculators wait until their insurance inspector gets finished determining the possible cause before jumping to conclusions.
--
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82803 is a reply to message #82800] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 17:31 |
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More wisdom from one of the GMC community's better thinkers. "I would
suggest that speculators wait until their insurance inspector gets finished
determining the possible cause before jumping to conclusions."
In my mind something really odd and abnormal happened. The thing that I keep
hearing in my mind is Jim saying he couldn't stop the blazing he saw jumping
out from near the right rear wheel.
By your point, Emery, there remains a slight possibility that something
rubbed against the LP line long enough over time to cause a very small leak.
Now, to get that leak to actually become a flame is pretty darn difficult.
So, also in my mind, I've ruled that out.
I, too, travel with the furnace running in very cold weather. Refrigerator
runs, too.
Fortunately, this started slowly enough for Jim and Marlys to get some
things out of the coach, disconnect the Tracker and wait for assistance.
Oddly, only the firetruck and a sheriff's deputy stopped. No occupant in a
truck or passenger vehicle stopped to offer assistance. This doesn't speak
well of us as a society. Thirty years ago someone would have stopped to
help. The cell phone has been a help and provided us an excuse at the same
time.
Thanks for the reality check, Emery.
Byron
Emery Stora wrote:
> This subject has been on the net a few times times in the past and people seem
> to be somewhat divided on this issue. I have owned 4 motorhomes over the last
> 42 years (my GMC now for 29 years) and I have used my propane while driving to
> power the refrigerator, stove and the furnace with all of them. The flammable
> range of the air / propane ratio required for combustion is fairly narrow.
> With too little air it will not ignite and the same goes for too much air - so
> I feel that propane is very safe. It also has the odor added so even a very
> small leak is quickly recognized.
>
> However, gasoline has a very wide range of flammability and is much more
> dangerous than propane and we sure do drive our GMCs while have full tanks of
> gasoline. However, I don't see anyone suggesting that we turn off our
> gasolline while we drive! Are you also planning to turn off your propane
> while parked and sleeping at night? Good luck keeping warm in the winter.
>
> One should, however, check the propane lines and fittings periodically for
> leaks. I use a commercial leak detector solution which I purchased at a
> hardware store (I think Lowe's also sells it). It is basically a soap
> solution but will detect very tiny leaks and is also not corrosive as soap
> might be. I try to check my lines in the spring and just before winter.
>
> The refrigerator runs much better on propane than electric (assuming that you
> have a two way or three way -- propane and 120 volt or 12 volt). The furnace
> is almost essential if you have people riding in the rear in the cold of
> winter. I used to travel with 4 kids and the furnace was needed to keep the
> back end warm.
>
> I still will continue to use my propane while enroute.
>
> At first several people were blaming the muffler for the Jim and Marlys coach
> file. Now it seems that some are figuring that the propane did it. I would
> suggest that speculators wait until their insurance inspector gets finished
> determining the possible cause before jumping to conclusions.
> --
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82804 is a reply to message #82803] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 17:42 |
storm'n
Messages: 492
Registered: April 2007
Location: Ont. Can
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Was it possible that the right rear brake stuck on & the brake shoes caught fire? Norm
More wisdom from one of the GMC community's better thinkers. "I would
suggest that speculators wait until their insurance inspector gets finished
determining the possible cause before jumping to conclusions."
In my mind something really odd and abnormal happened. The thing that I keep
hearing in my mind is Jim saying he couldn't stop the blazing he saw jumping
out from near the right rear wheel.
By your point, Emery, there remains a slight possibility that something
rubbed against the LP line long enough over time to cause a very small leak.
Now, to get that leak to actually become a flame is pretty darn difficult.
So, also in my mind, I've ruled that out.
I, too, travel with the furnace running in very cold weather. Refrigerator
runs, too.
Fortunately, this started slowly enough for Jim and Marlys to get some
things out of the coach, disconnect the Tracker and wait for assistance.
Oddly, only the firetruck and a sheriff's deputy stopped. No occupant in a
truck or passenger vehicle stopped to offer assistance. This doesn't speak
well of us as a society. Thirty years ago someone would have stopped to
help. The cell phone has been a help and provided us an excuse at the same
time.
Thanks for the reality check, Emery.
Byron
Emery Stora wrote:
> This subject has been on the net a few times times in the past and people seem
> to be somewhat divided on this issue. I have owned 4 motorhomes over the last
> 42 years (my GMC now for 29 years) and I have used my propane while driving to
> power the refrigerator, stove and the furnace with all of them. The flammable
> range of the air / propane ratio required for combustion is fairly narrow.
> With too little air it will not ignite and the same goes for too much air - so
> I feel that propane is very safe. It also has the odor added so even a very
> small leak is quickly recognized.
>
> However, gasoline has a very wide range of flammability and is much more
> dangerous than propane and we sure do drive our GMCs while have full tanks of
> gasoline. However, I don't see anyone suggesting that we turn off our
> gasolline while we drive! Are you also planning to turn off your propane
> while parked and sleeping at night? Good luck keeping warm in the winter.
>
> One should, however, check the propane lines and fittings periodically for
> leaks. I use a commercial leak detector solution which I purchased at a
> hardware store (I think Lowe's also sells it). It is basically a soap
> solution but will detect very tiny leaks and is also not corrosive as soap
> might be. I try to check my lines in the spring and just before winter.
>
> The refrigerator runs much better on propane than electric (assuming that you
> have a two way or three way -- propane and 120 volt or 12 volt). The furnace
> is almost essential if you have people riding in the rear in the cold of
> winter. I used to travel with 4 kids and the furnace was needed to keep the
> back end warm.
>
> I still will continue to use my propane while enroute.
>
> At first several people were blaming the muffler for the Jim and Marlys coach
> file. Now it seems that some are figuring that the propane did it. I would
> suggest that speculators wait until their insurance inspector gets finished
> determining the possible cause before jumping to conclusions.
> --
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82820 is a reply to message #82800] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 19:19 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I agree with Emery.
I have a 2 way (120 VAC & LPG) Dometic fridge in Double Trouble. I just
checked the Camping World website and it is still available. I then checked
the on line manual for it and it does not say to turn it and the LPG off
when the vehicle is underway. Furthermore considering today's litigious
society I can't understand why a company would make a 2 way fridge if
driving it with it running and the LPG on was dangerous.
When I was getting Double Trouble ready for our first tour at Ken Frey's
shop I inspected all the lines carefully for signs of chafing, stress at the
bends, and cracks. I disassembled the flared joints, slid the nuts up the
line, and checked the start of the flair at the line. When I re-assembled
the lines I was careful not to over-tighten the flare nuts. IIRC the rule of
thumb is finger tight plus 1/4 turn (or is 1/8 turn - you better look that
up)! I then leak checked the entire system with bubble soap. I checked the
LPG system again last year (didn't disassemble the flares) when I got Double
Trouble ready for our tour and will continue to do so each year.
Having said all this I do note that in the 1977 GMC Motorhome Operating
Manual (X-7721A) on page 5 it reads:
DRIVER CHECK LIST
BEFORE ENTERING VEHICLE
4. Turn off LP gas valve on LP tank (See CAUTION under CAUTION under "LP Gas
System" in SERVICE AND MAINTENANCE section).
BEFORE DRIVING OFF
8. Be sure all LP gas controls on furnace, range/oven, and gas/electrical
refrigerator (if so equipped) are turned off.
Page 95/96 - LP GAS SYSTEM
CAUTION
It is recommended that you travel with your LPG system off. All pilots and
burners should be turned off and the control valve on the LPG tank should be
off. This should be done whenever the vehicle will not be in use. This
reduces the hazard of leaking gas.
BOTTOM LINE FOR ME:
I believe the preventative maintenance steps I take make driving with the
LPG on an acceptable risk.
Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Monday, 3 May 2010 7:34 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures
This subject has been on the net a few times times in the past and people
seem to be somewhat divided on this issue. I have owned 4 motorhomes over
the last 42 years (my GMC now for 29 years) and I have used my propane while
driving to power the refrigerator, stove and the furnace with all of them.
The flammable range of the air / propane ratio required for combustion is
fairly narrow. With too little air it will not ignite and the same goes for
too much air - so I feel that propane is very safe. It also has the odor
added so even a very small leak is quickly recognized.
However, gasoline has a very wide range of flammability and is much more
dangerous than propane and we sure do drive our GMCs while have full tanks
of gasoline. However, I don't see anyone suggesting that we turn off our
gasolline while we drive! Are you also planning to turn off your propane
while parked and sleeping at night? Good luck keeping warm in the winter.
One should, however, check the propane lines and fittings periodically for
leaks. I use a commercial leak detector solution which I purchased at a
hardware store (I think Lowe's also sells it). It is basically a soap
solution but will detect very tiny leaks and is also not corrosive as soap
might be. I try to check my lines in the spring and just before winter.
The refrigerator runs much better on propane than electric (assuming that
you have a two way or three way -- propane and 120 volt or 12 volt). The
furnace is almost essential if you have people riding in the rear in the
cold of winter. I used to travel with 4 kids and the furnace was needed to
keep the back end warm.
I still will continue to use my propane while enroute.
At first several people were blaming the muffler for the Jim and Marlys
coach file. Now it seems that some are figuring that the propane did it. I
would suggest that speculators wait until their insurance inspector gets
finished determining the possible cause before jumping to conclusions.
--
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
List Information and Subscription Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82825 is a reply to message #82799] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 19:39 |
Luvn737s
Messages: 1106
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| ljdavick wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 14:09 |
Yikes! I've only turned off my propane when refilling the propane tank. Am I a driving time bomb? How do you keep the fridge cold?
|
If I'm driving to a campsite and the fridge has not been already in use for a day or so, then I buy a couple of blocks of ice to pre-cool the fridge and freezer until I get to the campsite then crank it up. Maybe it's a little easier on the fridge, maybe not.
At the campsite, I do run the propane heater when I'm there to supervise it, but turn it off otherwise. The fridge, I admit, does get left on at the campsite unattended. On the road we have a heat pump so we can run that, but we live in AZ, cold weather trips are a rarity.
I guess I could leave the gas on, but I like to do a pre-drive check which includes turning the propane off, so I do. But I can undestand the thinking behind the folks who decide to run with it on. We have one more bit of shared experience to help us make the decision to take a calculated risk. There are probably many more things that are more likely to fail which could also cause a catastrophe, but this is one risk I choose not to take.
Randy
1973 26' Painted Desert
Ahwatukee (Phoenix) AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82828 is a reply to message #82820] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 19:43 |
armandminnie
Messages: 864
Registered: May 2009
Location: Marana, AZ
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Somewhere in the discussion of this unfortunate incident over the last several days someone mentioned a recall of Dometic and Norcold refrigerators. I visited the Dometic site quoted in that message and checked my unit's model and serial numbers and, lo and behold, mine was part of the recall - from 2006! I called my local authorized Dometic repair man and he will be visiting me tomorrow - Monday - to install the kit which is intended to prevent a fire from spreading to the surrounding walls - not to prevent the fire but to contain it. Whatever causes the fire will not be fixed but sheet metal will be installed to prevent it from spreading. Just so you know and check your fridges for the same issue.
Armand Minnie
Marana, AZ
'76 Eleganza II TZE166V103202
visit my gmc blog
click here to visit gmcws.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82832 is a reply to message #82828] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 19:54 |
GMCWiperMan
Messages: 1248
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Armand,
Be glad you learned of the recall in time. I delayed until after the
over-sized electric heating element damaged the tubes in my Dometic, causing
them to crack and leak out all the refrigerant. Unlike early victims of
that design flaw, I didn't get a free repair. Dometic's rationale had
become "your leak didn't cause a fire, so you no longer have a hazard --
TS".
I swore I'd never buy another Dometic product. But after searching for a
replacement, the price and feature of the competition couldn't sustain that
"decision" -- I bought another one at the perigee of the RV industry slump.
Ken H.
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Armand Minnie <armand@minniebiz.com> wrote:
>
>
> Somewhere in the discussion of this unfortunate incident over the last
> several days someone mentioned a recall of Dometic and Norcold
> refrigerators. I visited the Dometic site quoted in that message and
> checked my unit's model and serial numbers and, lo and behold, mine was part
> of the recall - from 2006! I called my local authorized Dometic repair man
> and he will be visiting me tomorrow - Monday - to install the kit which is
> intended to prevent a fire from spreading to the surrounding walls - not to
> prevent the fire but to contain it. Whatever causes the fire will not be
> fixed but sheet metal will be installed to prevent it from spreading. Just
> so you know and check your fridges for the same issue.
> --
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane safety was Jim and Marlys Coach Pictures [message #82845 is a reply to message #82832] |
Sun, 02 May 2010 20:49 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I take it the Dome tic recall is the same one for the last couple of years and not a new one as I had mine modified over a year ago ? As far as traveling with the propane turned on I have been doing this for 38 years. I do make it a point to shut off the tank valve at home while the beast sleeps in the garage under my bedroom. When I got ready to go to Quartzite last winter I opened the tank valve and low and behold there was a pinhole leak in the tank pressure regulator coming out of the little vent hole. Kind of glad I left the valve shut while she was resting.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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