Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » What should I also do while radiator is out?
| What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278856] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 18:01  |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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I have done everything I could think of to avoid radiator as solution...alas I removed it today.
Had gotten to where it would stay steady (180 thermostat, gauge just over 1/4 with updated NAPA sender) the three mile mild downhill trip to radiator shop, but needle went to half way on sustained uphill coming home. Last weekend test with interstate speeds could not keep it from climbing over half way mark. Normal running with upper 80's outside temp. Not going to cut it.
Radiator to shop in the morning. Please confirm I am asking them for best order of operations here:
Leak/Flow test
Rod and clean if apparently good but blocked
Cost to re-core with 14 fin per inch if not good
If they start quoting 5,6,700 bucks I will be regrouping and possibly going to new aluminum.
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With radiator out, is there any reason NOT to cut the bottom of the frame and do the removable hinge modification? Compounded by the fact that a hole rusted through under one bottom rubber mount that I need to weld in some support. It would be easier to weld if I cut it off. If yes to making the bottom of frame removable, it looks like pictures I have seen used regular house door hinges, is that right?
Are there other things I should do while the radiator is out? My tranny fluid is already an external cooler, going to replace the simple rubber lines. The oil cooler is still in radiator, and the oil feed high pressure hydraulic looking hoses look fine, but are pretty stiff. Should I have a hose place rebuild them?
Anything else while I have access to front of engine? Already did belts and fan clutch earlier.
Here is one pic of the rust hole, there are a few more in the album if you are interested.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278862 is a reply to message #278856] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 19:50  |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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For oil cooler hoses you might consider the braided stainless steel hoses that are available from venders.
Just what I did.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278872 is a reply to message #278858] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 20:56 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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what method did you use to remove your radiator
http://gmcmotorhome.info/radiator.html#REM
I did "out the bottom". Basically unhook everything on top without removing, including the top support bracket. Then lift radiator the inch it needs to clear, bring the base forward and slide it all out carefully. There is a lot of extras up there, power steering hard line (with two lower retainers that had to be released for it to raise), all air lines, vacuum lines, AC condenser. Sounds simple. Still took hours.I think I still might cut the bottom if there is ever a next time.
As for a definite problem, I was convinced enough to pull it. Idling it could sit at a steady temp, right where the thermostat would open. work it and it would go up. work it hard and it would keep going up. I still hadn't worked it as hard as I anticipate on the upcoming big summer trip will require, and NAPA sender or not, heading past 3/4 or stop to let it cool is a drag. last straw was some fluid on top of the cap like the start of a boilover. I am open to all suggestions, and certainly hope the man tomorrow says "oh yea, plenty of crud but we got it all". then I have a cause and solution in one. so far I haven't nailed either! And if it passes with flying colors, that is one more piece checked off the "verified" list.
I just remembered another question: I have read the radiator is supposed to ground through the hard lines from tranny. Should I add a ground strap somewhere? Where would I attach to a radiator? Can the shop tomorrow add something?
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278880 is a reply to message #278856] |
Mon, 01 June 2015 21:59 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Drink some beer. You deserved it.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278906 is a reply to message #278856] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 06:10 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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With radiator out, is there any reason NOT to cut the bottom of the frame and do the removable hinge modification? Compounded by the fact that a hole rusted through under one bottom rubber mount that I need to weld in some support. It would be easier to weld if I cut it off. If yes to making the bottom of frame removable, it looks like pictures I have seen used regular house door hinges, is that right?
Sir, if you use hinges be careful in selecting. Take in consideration the material it is made of, how will it weld. Also look at the hinge in edge view and make sure the hinge is all on one side and will lay flat. If the hinge pin is in the center it will not lay flat on the rad housing unless you cut out more of the rad support to make room for it.. Measure carefully. If you use long bolts instead of the pins you will also have to custom cut the area around the bolt heads and nuts. I might suggest using angle iron instead to simplify installation.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/texas/p57823-welded.html
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278912 is a reply to message #278906] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 07:53 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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All good points, Chuck. I'll quit suggesting the use of butts. :-)
Ken H.
On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Charles Boyd
wrote:
>
> Sir, if you use hinges be careful in selecting. Take in consideration the
> material it is made of, how will it weld. Also look at the hinge in edge
> view and make sure the hinge is all on one side and will lay flat. If the
> hinge pin is in the center it will not lay flat on the rad housing unless
> you cut out more of the rad support to make room for it.. Measure
> carefully. If you use long bolts instead of the pins you will also have to
> custom
> cut the area around the bolt heads and nuts. I might suggest using angle
> iron instead to simplify installation.
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/texas/p57823-welded.html
>
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278914 is a reply to message #278856] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 08:18 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Alls I had to do was vise the hinges and put a bit of a bend in each side to raise the pin above the level of the plates. I bolted mine in with the bolt heads in the frame - there's plenty of clearance.
Two pieces of angle on each side would save having to bend the hinges.
As to oil cooler lines, I got a set of J.R. Slaten's replacements. I had told the radiator shop I didn't need the lines which I left connected to the radiator when it went for re-coring. I screwed up and left the adapters from the hard line to the flex lines on the old lines. So I went to the local hydraulics shop for another pair and took J.R.s lines along to make sure I got the correct parts. The guy was most impressed with them. I told him I paid roughly a hundred for them, his comment was "I can't touch that." Get a set, and ask J.R. to include the soft copper seals with them. That saves one set of removing and reseating.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278916 is a reply to message #278856] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 08:45 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Good news, bad news. Radiator shop says flow is good, and it has been previously re-cored so not facing the aged out thin walled type problems. We are going to boil it out and clean it, but he didn't anticipate any extra cooling function.
So. I have three ideas for why the system can't get the heat out with extra demand.
1. Carb/timing not set right. I have done everything I know, walked through step by step with Dick Paterson for this. Engine sounds good, but I still see drips of liquid gas getting by nozzles at idle, but maybe it's just wrong or carb messed up.
2. Only thing I have read I don't have is a spring in lower hose. I replaced it a month ago while doing other things to fix this. Can it collapse the more load you put on it and thereby reduce radiator flow?
3. Water pump not up to snuff. I had ordered a rebuilt one, the wheel on it proved to be 3 7/8 inches when it arrived, I did not put it on. I have heard/read people of the opinion that an old one not leaking is not worth replacing with an unknown quality rebuilt one, especially if doesn't have the extra capacity 4 1/4 inch impeller.
Thanks for the bracket, welding, and hinge options.
Shouldn't the needle stay pretty steady unless I am towing or going up a mountain?
All thoughts and suggestions appreciated...
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278921 is a reply to message #278856] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 09:38 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The needle oughta be pretty steady - it will to a degree track the thermostat opening and closing but the change is subtle.
Possibilities are - air yet in the system, bad thermostat, collapsing lower hose, leaky head gasket. If you're following Patterson's suggestions, you're in the right place. This assumes you have confirmed the dash temp gauge with a known good gauge.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278930 is a reply to message #278856] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 11:34 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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To each his own, but I'm not sure a hinge is any easier than this:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/timing-chain-2fradiator-project-05-2f09/p34552-timing-chain-2fradiator.html
With angle iron and bolts you don't have to worry about how to secure the hinge pin.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/timing-chain-2fradiator-project-05-2f09/p34567-timing-chain-2fradiator.html
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278937 is a reply to message #278856] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 13:10 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Oh boy, now yall have me thinking. In another recent thread about temp, I asked about how tight the hoses were getting...that would make sense if cylinder pressure is leaking. Will a compression test tell me what I need to know? I can do that while waiting on the radiator.
I pulled an oil sample last week. Just found a local place that will do analysis of oil and coolant by tomorrow. If they check out good, fine. If not...we might need an intervention rally here in Raleigh.
To Tom's post: I am not sure what to make of the fan clutch. Installed a Hayden last year, reinstalled it when I learned I needed the little coupler/spacer thing. It cooled fine, but ran too much. I found a New Old Stock genuine clutch I put on over the winter and it seems to behave correctly, except all this actual cooling issue. Remembering I didn't have the temp creep with the Hayden is actually giving me some hope about the head gasket option. (But doesn't explain the tight hoses.)
Off to the lab...
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #278939 is a reply to message #278856] |
Tue, 02 June 2015 13:32 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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A leaking gasket will spw up in the analysis of coolant. Usually, it will show up if you take a whiff of the coolant - it will smell like the exhaust. Tight hoses aren't a good indicator, they will only pressurize to 9 pounds before the cap releases anything over that. Thermostats are cheap. I'd remove the old one, punch out the works so it becomes merely a restriction in the outlet as it would if it were open, and see if this helps. Want to save the cost of a gasket for the housing? Just replace the 'stat with a new one. If you have a hot water heater which heats off the coolant, block it off for a test - the lines should have a restriction in them, but it may of been lost, allowing too much recirculation. I've been having essentially the same problem, and my lower hose has the spring. I'm gonna be interested in the solution.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: What should I also do while radiator is out? [message #279014 is a reply to message #278856] |
Wed, 03 June 2015 14:39 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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Ok. Lab analysis is new to me. Oil report says "sodium and potassium are high indicating a possible coolant leak. lead appears elevated. possible bearing wear. more samples are needed to establish a trend". Numbers are Na 315, K 45, Pb 96, Cu 21 Fe 73. But in the oil condition section presence of antifreeze is marked "n" for none.
Coolant report only says "nitrite inhibitor is low. add ELC extender"
If I can figure a way to give you the whole sheets later I might try, don't have time right now.
So how serious do I need to take "possible coolant leak" info from the oil report? There are not that many miles on the tested fluids (less than 1000 miles, maybe as low as 500), how long would it take to show up in the coolant?
I can pick up my radiator tonight and maybe get it back in tomorrow to do Johnny's test of taking the house water heater loop out of the circuit, and checking for restrictor. I'll open the thermostat and/or change back to the Hayden clutch after that. And then I guess I would have to change the water pump.
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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