Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » air bag replacement?
| air bag replacement? [message #368651] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 09:53  |
ktcnyc
Messages: 25
Registered: September 2020
Karma: -1
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Junior Member |
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Hello, The airbags in my 77 Eleganza were replaced by a PO in 2010 (I have receipts back to 05). They seem OK holding pressure fine. Need I consider new ones or if it ain't broke why fix it? The coach came with a used spare.
Any experience with the Monobag system?
Thanks for any and all opinions!
KC
Kevin Cloutier -'77 Eleganza II-455, 6 disk brakes, Edelbrock carb, headers, , resident of NYC and Dingmans Ferry, Pa.
'72 MGB-GT & '73 MGB convertible
Member GMCMI since 8/20
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| Re: air bag replacement? [message #368657 is a reply to message #368651] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 11:06  |
boybach
Messages: 566
Registered: December 2020
Location: Vancouver Island
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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The originals can last about 30 years or so. Unless the bags look cracked or damaged in some way I'd find something else to worry about. The bags on my coach were renewed at about the same time as yours. I'm not at all concerned about them. You can get reproduction OEM style bags too, so no need to consider changing the system IMO.
Larry
Larry - Victoria BC -
1977 ex-Palm Beach "Ol' Leaky" 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. Atwood helium fridge, water heater & furnace. SS exhaust system, Onan, Iota Converter, R134A, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
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| Re: air bag replacement? [message #368666 is a reply to message #368651] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 15:51 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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AFAIK, the bags on my '78 Royale were original. They looked pretty weatherchecked, but held air just fine for many years. And, the PO included a spare (original style) bag with the coach, as well as an aluminum "bag replacement rod", so I wasn't worried about a failure (other than some slight chance of body damage if the bag failed catastrophically).
After "only" 42 or so years, one of the bags quietly expired in its sleep in my warehouse. I mounted the spare bag (just because) and ordered a set of Sully bags (slightly larger single bag system that's an easy-peasy install). I replaced all the aged hardware (pneumatic lines, valves, etc.) and it's working great - in fact, better than new, because the new bags take less pressure, so they fill up faster. I can't say they changed the ride quality at all.
But if I had original style bags in good shape, I'd have no problem leaving them in for a MANY more years, based on my limited experience.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368667 is a reply to message #368666] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 16:23 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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A bit of history on the OEM air bags. They were originally designed to
military specs. Namely, their original purpose was to support the
operations center at N.O.R.A.D. inside Cheyenne Mountain. That structure
was designed to withstand a nuclear blast. Of course, there are rows and
rows of them under the building inside of a tunnel deep inside a mountain.
And the GMC only has two. Those bags consist of 3 separate bags. The inner
one which actually holds the air is a bladder similar to an inner tube in a
bias ply tire. The second layer is a neoprene infused fabric bag, the third
or visible bag is U.V. resistant material similar to what tires are made
of. The condition of the outer layer has little bearing upon whether the
bag can hold air. Just how it is.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 1:52 PM Mark wrote:
> AFAIK, the bags on my '78 Royale were original. They looked pretty
> weatherchecked, but held air just fine for many years. And, the PO
> included a
> spare (original style) bag with the coach, as well as an aluminum "bag
> replacement rod", so I wasn't worried about a failure (other than some
> slight
> chance of body damage if the bag failed catastrophically).
>
> After "only" 42 or so years, one of the bags quietly expired in its sleep
> in my warehouse. I mounted the spare bag (just because) and ordered a set
> of Sully bags (slightly larger single bag system that's an easy-peasy
> install). I replaced all the aged hardware (pneumatic lines, valves, etc.)
> and
> it's working great - in fact, better than new, because the new bags take
> less pressure, so they fill up faster. I can't say they changed the ride
> quality at all.
>
> But if I had original style bags in good shape, I'd have no problem
> leaving them in for a MANY more years, based on my limited experience.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368671 is a reply to message #368667] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 18:25 |
dsmithy
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
How do you know this stuff?
Supporting the NORAD Cheyenne Mountain command center? Good Grief.
I just love knowing that. I hope it's true.
FYI, for general knowledge...
I lost the drivers side OEM airbag at 70mph on a two lane road. No wobble, no swerve, not even the hint of loss of control. Big bang, then the rear just squatted.
I pulled off onto the (luckily generous) shoulder, replaced the dead bag with a rod/pipe that the PO had stored under the davo and drove the 250 miles to my farm destination.
Douglas & Virginia Smith,
dsmithy18 at gmail,
Lincoln Nebraska,
’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy wheels/Sundry other
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368672 is a reply to message #368671] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 19:43 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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There was an original bag that came with my coach. One of the previous
owners bought it thinking he needed a spare bag. It had an address of a GMC
Motorhome dealer in Eugene.
So, I looked up their phone number and asked to talk to the parts guy.
He told me the name of the previous (recently retired) parts guy that he
said was a gold mine of GMC information.
The retired guy was indeed as advertised. I went to his place near
Springfield, Oregon and he showed me lots of things, like how to remove and
replace without damage the front hub bearings and seals. I brought up the
subject of Air bags and he just laughed at me for wanting a spare air bag.
He then told me about the bags and the Cheyenne Mountain stuff. He was a
parts guy when the coaches first were introduced, and was trained at the GM
training Center near Portland, the same one that I attended when I was
being trained. His name was Ken Thoma. I think that Jim Kanamoto knew him
quite well. Is the story factual? I personally think that it is. But, have
I seen that information on a burning bush? Or even in print? Nope.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 4:25 PM Douglas Smith wrote:
> Jim,
> How do you know this stuff?
> Supporting the NORAD Cheyenne Mountain command center? Good Grief.
> I just love knowing that. I hope it's true.
>
> FYI, for general knowledge...
> I lost the drivers side OEM airbag at 70mph on a two lane road. No wobble,
> no swerve, not even the hint of loss of control. Big bang, then the rear
> just squatted.
> I pulled off onto the (luckily generous) shoulder, replaced the dead bag
> with a rod/pipe that the PO had stored under the davo and drove the 250
> miles
> to my farm destination.
>
> --
> Douglas & Virginia Smith,
> dsmithy18 at gmail,
> Lincoln Nebraska,
> ’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
> Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy
> wheels/Sundry other
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368673 is a reply to message #368672] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 20:20 |
dsmithy
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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See what I mean about older, wiser, fatter?
My thanks was meant for you, JIM H.
Yikes.
> On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:43 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> There was an original bag that came with my coach. One of the previous
> owners bought it thinking he needed a spare bag. It had an address of a GMC
> Motorhome dealer in Eugene.
> So, I looked up their phone number and asked to talk to the parts guy.
> He told me the name of the previous (recently retired) parts guy that he
> said was a gold mine of GMC information.
> The retired guy was indeed as advertised. I went to his place near
> Springfield, Oregon and he showed me lots of things, like how to remove and
> replace without damage the front hub bearings and seals. I brought up the
> subject of Air bags and he just laughed at me for wanting a spare air bag.
> He then told me about the bags and the Cheyenne Mountain stuff. He was a
> parts guy when the coaches first were introduced, and was trained at the GM
> training Center near Portland, the same one that I attended when I was
> being trained. His name was Ken Thoma. I think that Jim Kanamoto knew him
> quite well. Is the story factual? I personally think that it is. But, have
> I seen that information on a burning bush? Or even in print? Nope.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 4:25 PM Douglas Smith wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>> How do you know this stuff?
>> Supporting the NORAD Cheyenne Mountain command center? Good Grief.
>> I just love knowing that. I hope it's true.
>>
>> FYI, for general knowledge...
>> I lost the drivers side OEM airbag at 70mph on a two lane road. No wobble,
>> no swerve, not even the hint of loss of control. Big bang, then the rear
>> just squatted.
>> I pulled off onto the (luckily generous) shoulder, replaced the dead bag
>> with a rod/pipe that the PO had stored under the davo and drove the 250
>> miles
>> to my farm destination.
>>
>> --
>> Douglas & Virginia Smith,
>> dsmithy18 at gmail,
>> Lincoln Nebraska,
>> ’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
>> Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy
>> wheels/Sundry other
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Douglas & Virginia Smith,
dsmithy18 at gmail,
Lincoln Nebraska,
’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy wheels/Sundry other
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368674 is a reply to message #368672] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 20:14 |
dsmithy
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I remember hearing Ken Thoma’s name quite a lot back in ’95 when we first got the coach. But the things I didn’t pay any attention to regarding the GMC would fill a book. And it wouldn’t be a very fun read. I’m older, wiser, fatter now and learning what I should have paid attention to then.
In any case, thanks for the best “fun fact” I’ve heard in a long time.
When I bought a screen door from Alex Birch we talked a lot, and he told me about the time he did a demo of full throttle figure eights in front of an audience of dealers to great acclaim, only to have the door jam so he had to climb out a window to escape. A great story he told to lots of others as well.
I wish someone kept a list of these anecdotes. As time passes we lose them.
Thanks Ken.
Doug
> On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:43 PM, James Hupy wrote:
>
> There was an original bag that came with my coach. One of the previous
> owners bought it thinking he needed a spare bag. It had an address of a GMC
> Motorhome dealer in Eugene.
> So, I looked up their phone number and asked to talk to the parts guy.
> He told me the name of the previous (recently retired) parts guy that he
> said was a gold mine of GMC information.
> The retired guy was indeed as advertised. I went to his place near
> Springfield, Oregon and he showed me lots of things, like how to remove and
> replace without damage the front hub bearings and seals. I brought up the
> subject of Air bags and he just laughed at me for wanting a spare air bag.
> He then told me about the bags and the Cheyenne Mountain stuff. He was a
> parts guy when the coaches first were introduced, and was trained at the GM
> training Center near Portland, the same one that I attended when I was
> being trained. His name was Ken Thoma. I think that Jim Kanamoto knew him
> quite well. Is the story factual? I personally think that it is. But, have
> I seen that information on a burning bush? Or even in print? Nope.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 4:25 PM Douglas Smith wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>> How do you know this stuff?
>> Supporting the NORAD Cheyenne Mountain command center? Good Grief.
>> I just love knowing that. I hope it's true.
>>
>> FYI, for general knowledge...
>> I lost the drivers side OEM airbag at 70mph on a two lane road. No wobble,
>> no swerve, not even the hint of loss of control. Big bang, then the rear
>> just squatted.
>> I pulled off onto the (luckily generous) shoulder, replaced the dead bag
>> with a rod/pipe that the PO had stored under the davo and drove the 250
>> miles
>> to my farm destination.
>>
>> --
>> Douglas & Virginia Smith,
>> dsmithy18 at gmail,
>> Lincoln Nebraska,
>> ’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
>> Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy
>> wheels/Sundry other
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
Douglas & Virginia Smith,
dsmithy18 at gmail,
Lincoln Nebraska,
’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy wheels/Sundry other
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| correction [message #368675 is a reply to message #368673] |
Sun, 06 February 2022 21:01 |
dsmithy
Messages: 210
Registered: July 2012
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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No Message Body
Douglas & Virginia Smith,
dsmithy18 at gmail,
Lincoln Nebraska,
’73 “Sequoia” since ‘95: "Wanabizo";
Quadrabag/6 wheel disks/3:70 final/Paterson QuadraJet/Thorley’s/Alloy wheels/Sundry other
[Updated on: Sun, 06 February 2022 21:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368676 is a reply to message #368671] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 01:06 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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That sounds like the time that Arch (Richard Archer) pulled his coach off the right side of his gravel driveway and all three right wheels sank. The coach ended up laying partially on it's side and he could not get out of the door. He showed me one time when I was down there where he did it. It was a very long narrow gravel driveway. He did not damage the coach.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: air bag replacement? [message #368677 is a reply to message #368651] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 01:54 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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The best thing you can do now while the bags still hold air is to loosen the mounting nuts, rotate the bags, inspect them for bad spots, lubricate the threads with anti-sieze, and tighten them again. I further suggest that you replace the nuts and star / tooth washers with stainless ones that are available from Ace Hardware.
There is nothing worse than having to change a bag and not being able to get the old ones loose. I did it twice a year apart for a friend and ended up having to get a flame wrench to burn the old ones off.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: air bag replacement? [message #368678 is a reply to message #368651] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 08:30 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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If you go to Firestoneip.com and go to isolators and marsh mallow you can see their current equipment isolator catalogue. Ours were most often used vertically on heavy machinery. Or by the mil as JH suggests. Sadly our part is long discontinued, but Cinnabar has their own reproduction available.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: air bag replacement? [message #368679 is a reply to message #368677] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 08:30 |
ktcnyc
Messages: 25
Registered: September 2020
Karma: -1
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Junior Member |
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Whoa! My old bags are holding up NORAD !! I will definitely move on to worrying about a zillion other bits on the coach.
Good advice on loosening up those bolts now rather than by roadside.
Many thanks for the information of all sorts
KC
Kevin Cloutier -'77 Eleganza II-455, 6 disk brakes, Edelbrock carb, headers, , resident of NYC and Dingmans Ferry, Pa.
'72 MGB-GT & '73 MGB convertible
Member GMCMI since 8/20
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368680 is a reply to message #368679] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 09:56 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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This subject has slid sideways agood bit. While we are taking a leisurely
stroll down memory lane, I was greatly influenced by Arch, as well as Dan
Gregg, and many others like Ken Thoma, let us not forget the grasshopper,
either. A treasure trove of GMC historical data to be sure.
Now that I kinda find myself in the sunset of my life, that stuff has
more importance to me as an obligation to pass information on to those who
legitimately have a need to know it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 6:30 AM wrote:
> Whoa! My old bags are holding up NORAD !! I will definitely move on to
> worrying about a zillion other bits on the coach.
> Good advice on loosening up those bolts now rather than by roadside.
> Many thanks for the information of all sorts
>
> KC
> --
> Kevin Cloutier -'77 Eleganza II-455, 6 disk brakes, Edelbrock carb,
> headers, , resident of NYC and Dingmans Ferry, Pa.
> '72 MGB-GT & '73 MGB convertible
> Member GMCMI since 8/20
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368682 is a reply to message #368651] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 12:58 |
les sinclair
Messages: 4
Registered: February 2022
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Gentlemen, forgive me for butting in. I’ve owned my ‘76 Palm Beach (mostly original) for about 4 years now, but I only added my email to the gmclist server yesterday. I never expected to see such a robust conversation about these 40+ year old coaches!
It’s been getting cold here in West Texas lately and I’m finding the air bags bled down after a cold night. During the summer they’ll stay inflated for weeks! So I recognize that I have a slow leak somewhere, but I’m struggling to see what component would be so sensitive to outside temperature. The bags themselves were replaced by the PO and no amount of soap solution has yet produced a bubble. I’m starting to suspect a leaking control valve inside the coach but I haven’t tackled those yet.
Les Sinclair
Midland, TX
> On Feb 7, 2022, at 12:43 PM, CJV wrote:
>
> Excellent point James. This does not only apply to motorhomes, but to family history as well. I still kick my own butt for not recording the stories from my parents and grandparents past. Especially how they came to Canada...
>
> CJ Vermeulen, Scribbler
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Hupy"
> To: "gmclist"
> Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 9:56:27 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement?
>
> This subject has slid sideways agood bit. While we are taking a leisurely
> stroll down memory lane, I was greatly influenced by Arch, as well as Dan
> Gregg, and many others like Ken Thoma, let us not forget the grasshopper,
> either. A treasure trove of GMC historical data to be sure.
> Now that I kinda find myself in the sunset of my life, that stuff has
> more importance to me as an obligation to pass information on to those who
> legitimately have a need to know it.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 6:30 AM wrote:
>>
>> Whoa! My old bags are holding up NORAD !! I will definitely move on to
>> worrying about a zillion other bits on the coach.
>> Good advice on loosening up those bolts now rather than by roadside.
>> Many thanks for the information of all sorts
>>
>> KC
>> --
>> Kevin Cloutier -'77 Eleganza II-455, 6 disk brakes, Edelbrock carb,
>> headers, , resident of NYC and Dingmans Ferry, Pa.
>> '72 MGB-GT & '73 MGB convertible
>> Member GMCMI since 8/20
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368683 is a reply to message #368677] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 12:36 |
CJV
Messages: 49
Registered: December 2021
Karma: 1
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Member |
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Whenever I worked on my toys, I replaced the original fasteners with SS. Apart from the cost, one night broken down in the dark wilderness, you will pat yourself on the back. No matter how much it hurts your elbow...
CJ Vermeulen, Scribbler
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Burton"
To: "gmclist"
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 1:54:56 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement?
The best thing you can do now while the bags still hold air is to loosen the mounting nuts, rotate the bags, inspect them for bad spots, lubricate the
threads with anti-sieze, and tighten them again. I further suggest that you replace the nuts and star / tooth washers with stainless ones that are
available from Ace Hardware.
There is nothing worse than having to change a bag and not being able to get the old ones loose. I did it twice a year apart for a friend and ended
up having to get a flame wrench to burn the old ones off.
Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement? [message #368684 is a reply to message #368680] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 12:43 |
CJV
Messages: 49
Registered: December 2021
Karma: 1
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Member |
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Excellent point James. This does not only apply to motorhomes, but to family history as well. I still kick my own butt for not recording the stories from my parents and grandparents past. Especially how they came to Canada...
CJ Vermeulen, Scribbler
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hupy"
To: "gmclist"
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 9:56:27 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: air bag replacement?
This subject has slid sideways agood bit. While we are taking a leisurely
stroll down memory lane, I was greatly influenced by Arch, as well as Dan
Gregg, and many others like Ken Thoma, let us not forget the grasshopper,
either. A treasure trove of GMC historical data to be sure.
Now that I kinda find myself in the sunset of my life, that stuff has
more importance to me as an obligation to pass information on to those who
legitimately have a need to know it.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022, 6:30 AM wrote:
> Whoa! My old bags are holding up NORAD !! I will definitely move on to
> worrying about a zillion other bits on the coach.
> Good advice on loosening up those bolts now rather than by roadside.
> Many thanks for the information of all sorts
>
> KC
> --
> Kevin Cloutier -'77 Eleganza II-455, 6 disk brakes, Edelbrock carb,
> headers, , resident of NYC and Dingmans Ferry, Pa.
> '72 MGB-GT & '73 MGB convertible
> Member GMCMI since 8/20
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: air bag replacement? [message #368686 is a reply to message #368651] |
Mon, 07 February 2022 16:08 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Sag due to cold weather is just physics. Same as tire pressure. You lose about 1PSI per 10°F decrease in temp. Can’t fix that. It’s the law!
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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