Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Belt line leaks
| Re: [GMCnet] Belt line leaks [message #354120 is a reply to message #354117] |
Sat, 25 April 2020 11:36   |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I have some down in the shop. I am in the house right now. When I go down
there in a bit, I will get the EXACT part numbers and product codes for you.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:22 AM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Jim, I'm not finding 3M 5300 sealant - can you check that is the correct
> number? Several other 5300 numbered items but no sealant.
>
> I'd like to get some based on your experience / recommendation instead
> of making my own mistakes.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stu
>
> On 4/25/2020 8:24 AM, James Hupy via Gmclist wrote:
>> Just one more thing that I thought of:
>> The moulding that joins the ROOF AND SIDES TOGETHER has removable end
>> seals? on the fore and aft ends of the mouldings. They have a custom made
>> rubber or neoprene piece inside that is supposed to seal the ends of the
>> extrusion. They are 40 + years old, not bad for humans, but way, way, old
>> for rubber parts. My coach leaked there on all 4 corners, but the drip
> rail
>> moulding did not leak along the entire length of the coach. Under those
>> drip rails, the factory used a black, NASTY, non hardening, gooey
>> substance that really works well. But, the end pieces are the weak link
> in
>> the chain. I removed the end covers and resealed them in a bed of 3M 5300
>> non-hardening flexible sealant, black in color. It is almost as nasty to
>> work with as what the factory used under the drip rails. But, it did the
>> trick for me.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 7:53 AM Charles Boyd via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Sir, I believe that belt line piece is 2 pieces. It is a body line
>>> junction for the aluminum and the SMC till it gets to the front cap
> which
>>> is all
>>> SMC. There is an added piece of aluminum that extends the 2” wide joint
>>> and is removable by drilling out the rivets. Your leak is probably at
> the
>>> joint.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Green machine wrote on Sat, 25 April 2020 10:34
>>>> Just a quick update. I pulled the belt line molding off, got in the the
>>> crack on the extrusion with a brush and a pick ) which I later switched
>>>> out for an exacto knife) and dug out as much crud as I could. Most
> spots
>>> were tight to the body so not much to get out. The spots where it had
>>>> separated a bit I was able to get out a bit more. I then used a nylon
>>> brush and some alcohol and scrubbed in the crack as best as I could
> while
>>>> wiping it down with a rag. It was as clean as I could get it. I taped
> it
>>> off leaving a spot for about a 1/16" bead of sealant. I used RTV. Ran my
>>>> finger along the bead to push into the crack as best as i could and
>>> removed the tape. Job done.
>>>> I woke up to a heavy rain this morning and excited to see the fruits of
>>> my labour, I poured a coffee and headed out with a flashlight. Now. The
>>>> big question. Did it work??? Drum roll please!!!!...
>>>>
>>>> NO! Well sort of...
>>>>
>>>> It did limit the amount of water getting in and targeted the
> culprit(s).
>>> My coach is on a sloped driveway, nose down, so the gutters have all the
>>>> water coming out the front end. That stream is permeating at the body
>>> seem behind the fender and beside but below the window on both sides.
> Right
>>> at
>>>> the belt line. It's not coming from any higher. It's right at that
>>> joint.I had previously sealed those seam lines and cut out about a 1/4"
> to
>>>> accommodate the new sealant. I suspect there is a gap between the 2
>>> sealants where water is still getting in. I now know what I have to do.
> Just
>>>> have to wait for the rain to stop here in Vancouver which can take some
>>> time.
>>>> Anyway, I guess I'm back inside the coach until the rain stops. Much to
>>> do in there as well.
>>>> Shawn
>>>
>>> --
>>> C. Boyd
>>> 76 Crestmont
>>> East Tennessee
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Belt line leaks [message #354121 is a reply to message #354117] |
Sat, 25 April 2020 11:38 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
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When leak testing and leak repairing your coach it is imperative that the
coach is leveled. Any slope at all will change the water flow of the leak
once it enters the coach making it much more challenging to locate the
point of entry. A tilted coach will also have problem water entry points
which will not leak or only leak a little when the coach is flat and vice
versa. You will find once you are “done” fixing your leaks that different
parking slopes and angles will expose “new” leaks. If you can make your
coach practically water tight in the level condition then you only need to
make sure your coach is stored level to have the best water exclusion when
parked unused.
STAY AWAY FROM SILICONE
if you ever plan on painting the area you are sealing.
Sully
Bellevue wa.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 9:22 AM Stu Rasmussen via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Jim, I'm not finding 3M 5300 sealant - can you check that is the correct
> number? Several other 5300 numbered items but no sealant.
>
> I'd like to get some based on your experience / recommendation instead
> of making my own mistakes.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stu
>
> On 4/25/2020 8:24 AM, James Hupy via Gmclist wrote:
>> Just one more thing that I thought of:
>> The moulding that joins the ROOF AND SIDES TOGETHER has removable end
>> seals? on the fore and aft ends of the mouldings. They have a custom made
>> rubber or neoprene piece inside that is supposed to seal the ends of the
>> extrusion. They are 40 + years old, not bad for humans, but way, way, old
>> for rubber parts. My coach leaked there on all 4 corners, but the drip
> rail
>> moulding did not leak along the entire length of the coach. Under those
>> drip rails, the factory used a black, NASTY, non hardening, gooey
>> substance that really works well. But, the end pieces are the weak link
> in
>> the chain. I removed the end covers and resealed them in a bed of 3M 5300
>> non-hardening flexible sealant, black in color. It is almost as nasty to
>> work with as what the factory used under the drip rails. But, it did the
>> trick for me.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 7:53 AM Charles Boyd via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Sir, I believe that belt line piece is 2 pieces. It is a body line
>>> junction for the aluminum and the SMC till it gets to the front cap
> which
>>> is all
>>> SMC. There is an added piece of aluminum that extends the 2” wide joint
>>> and is removable by drilling out the rivets. Your leak is probably at
> the
>>> joint.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Green machine wrote on Sat, 25 April 2020 10:34
>>>> Just a quick update. I pulled the belt line molding off, got in the the
>>> crack on the extrusion with a brush and a pick ) which I later switched
>>>> out for an exacto knife) and dug out as much crud as I could. Most
> spots
>>> were tight to the body so not much to get out. The spots where it had
>>>> separated a bit I was able to get out a bit more. I then used a nylon
>>> brush and some alcohol and scrubbed in the crack as best as I could
> while
>>>> wiping it down with a rag. It was as clean as I could get it. I taped
> it
>>> off leaving a spot for about a 1/16" bead of sealant. I used RTV. Ran my
>>>> finger along the bead to push into the crack as best as i could and
>>> removed the tape. Job done.
>>>> I woke up to a heavy rain this morning and excited to see the fruits of
>>> my labour, I poured a coffee and headed out with a flashlight. Now. The
>>>> big question. Did it work??? Drum roll please!!!!...
>>>>
>>>> NO! Well sort of...
>>>>
>>>> It did limit the amount of water getting in and targeted the
> culprit(s).
>>> My coach is on a sloped driveway, nose down, so the gutters have all the
>>>> water coming out the front end. That stream is permeating at the body
>>> seem behind the fender and beside but below the window on both sides.
> Right
>>> at
>>>> the belt line. It's not coming from any higher. It's right at that
>>> joint.I had previously sealed those seam lines and cut out about a 1/4"
> to
>>>> accommodate the new sealant. I suspect there is a gap between the 2
>>> sealants where water is still getting in. I now know what I have to do.
> Just
>>>> have to wait for the rain to stop here in Vancouver which can take some
>>> time.
>>>> Anyway, I guess I'm back inside the coach until the rain stops. Much to
>>> do in there as well.
>>>> Shawn
>>>
>>> --
>>> C. Boyd
>>> 76 Crestmont
>>> East Tennessee
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Belt line leaks [message #354122 is a reply to message #354118] |
Sat, 25 April 2020 11:54 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
There are literally dozens of high quality flexible sealants on the market.
The TWO QUALITIES that are absolutely essential to them to perform the job
at hand are:
1. Their ability to bond to the materials that they are being used on.
(Plastic gel coat, painted metal, etc.)
2. They must remain flexible after they are cured.
And a third quality that is very, very important to me, but might not
concern others, is that the product contain absolutely NO SILICONE!! NO
EXCEPTIONS. But, that is just my aversion to the stuff.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:37 AM Shawn Harris via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> Jim Bounds recommends Wurth Bond'n Seal. That is what I used. Its
> expensive stuff but works great. I tried to find an online retailer to no
> avail.
> Ordered them from Jim.
> --
> Shawn Harris
> North Vancouver,
> Canada
> 1977 Palm Beach 403
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Belt line leaks [message #354123 is a reply to message #354122] |
Sat, 25 April 2020 13:43 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This may. is specifically aimed at Stu R. but may also interest others.
The sealant that I frequently use on leaks where it is visible after
application is:
3M MARINE ADHESIVE SEALANT #5200. This number is good for the caulking tube
quantity which I use. 10 fluid oz. Permanent, High Strength, for use on
gelcoat/fiberglass, wood, and others. I does not fully cure until 7 days @
70° F. or higher. It is not cheap.
The product that I use for windows and windshields is also a 3M product in
a caulking tube. 3M Window-Weld Super Fast Urethane product code #08609
Black. 10.5 fl oz. You do not have much working time with this one.
And lastly, I use 3M Black Super Weatherstrip and Gasket Adhesive. Fast
drying. Comes in a tube like toothpaste. 5 fl.oz. Product Code #08008. You
don't have all day on this one either. Smells acrid, like contact adhesive.
If you get this stuff on your hands, you will wear it off.
All three of these are expensive. But, they work. The Marine stuff I
got at Ace Hardware in S.Salem. The other two, I get from an automotive
paint store.
Just what I use, and have success with long term. As with all this stuff,
cleanliness is the key to success. If you have any residual silicone
products on your work, your results will not make you happy. I use every
cleaning product in the book to get rid of silicone, every last trace of
it.
I have been known to cut and buff surfaces just to make sure. Roof
end caps where the clearance lights are, is a prime example. Every
knucklehead in the world hops up there and squeezes out copious gobs of the
stuff around those lights. I totally remove them, and their molyscrew
anchors, then cut and buff the end caps back to the joint. Takes time. But
no leaks is the payoff.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:54 AM James Hupy wrote:
> There are literally dozens of high quality flexible sealants on the
> market. The TWO QUALITIES that are absolutely essential to them to perform
> the job at hand are:
> 1. Their ability to bond to the materials that they are being used on.
> (Plastic gel coat, painted metal, etc.)
> 2. They must remain flexible after they are cured.
> And a third quality that is very, very important to me, but might not
> concern others, is that the product contain absolutely NO SILICONE!! NO
> EXCEPTIONS. But, that is just my aversion to the stuff.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:37 AM Shawn Harris via Gmclist gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Jim Bounds recommends Wurth Bond'n Seal. That is what I used. Its
>> expensive stuff but works great. I tried to find an online retailer to no
>> avail.
>> Ordered them from Jim.
>> --
>> Shawn Harris
>> North Vancouver,
>> Canada
>> 1977 Palm Beach 403
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
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| Re: Belt line leaks [message #354125 is a reply to message #354035] |
Sat, 25 April 2020 14:44 |
Greg C.
Messages: 224
Registered: October 2019
Location: Knoxville, TN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
3M 5200 is widely used in the boating industry. However, 3M does not recommend its use on anything that ever needs to come apart again.
I use 4200, which is a similar compound, but can be removed SLIGHTLY easier. The 5200 will literally tear apart anything that is glued with it before it breaks itself. It can and will separate gelcoat from a
fiberglass composite without the 5200 ever separating.
One surefire method to remove 5200 is heat it with a torch, and it will come apart, but that can't be done with most substrates without damaging them.
I never use 5200 anymore for these and other reasons on my boat projects.
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN
"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
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| Re: [GMCnet] Belt line leaks [message #354126 is a reply to message #354125] |
Sat, 25 April 2020 15:14 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That feature is exactly why I absolutely insist that everything you are
going to apply it to is a clean as it can possibly be made to be. It ain't
going to leak. Not now, not never. Just be damn sure you want to use it,
before you proceed.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 12:45 PM Greg Crawford via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
> 3M 5200 is widely used in the boating industry. However, 3M does not
> recommend its use on anything that ever needs to come apart again.
>
> I use 4200, which is a similar compound, but can be removed SLIGHTLY
> easier. The 5200 will literally tear apart anything that is glued with it
> before
> it breaks itself. It can and will separate gelcoat from a
>
> fiberglass composite without the 5200 ever separating.
>
> One surefire method to remove 5200 is heat it with a torch, and it will
> come apart, but that can't be done with most substrates without damaging
> them.
>
>
> I never use 5200 anymore for these and other reasons on my boat projects.
> --
> Greg Crawford
> Knoxville, TN
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Belt line leaks [message #354139 is a reply to message #354126] |
Sun, 26 April 2020 08:16 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
|
Senior Member |
|
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Greg C. wrote on Sat, 25 April 2020 15:443M 5200 is widely used in the boating industry. However, 3M does not recommend its use on anything that ever needs to come apart again.
I use 4200, which is a similar compound, but can be removed SLIGHTLY easier. The 5200 will literally tear apart anything that is glued with it before it breaks itself. It can and will separate gelcoat from a fiberglass composite without the 5200 ever separating.
One surefire method to remove 5200 is heat it with a torch, and it will come apart, but that can't be done with most substrates without damaging them.
I never use 5200 anymore for these and other reasons on my boat projects.
James Hupy wrote on Sat, 25 April 2020 16:14That feature is exactly why I absolutely insist that everything you are going to apply it to is a clean as it can possibly be made to be. It ain't going to leak. Not now, not never. Just be damn sure you want to use it, before you proceed.
Jim Hupy
After years of repairing owners boats, I can assure you that the stories about 5200 are true. There is, however, a little piece that has not been mentioned. There is an available product called "Debond". It is expensive and dangerous, but it worked. As I was closing my operation, there was also a product from 3M, but I never used it.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Belt line leaks [message #354172 is a reply to message #354035] |
Mon, 27 April 2020 07:28 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I spoke to a local manufacturer (Tower Sealants) but they only make construction sealants - caulk, concrete seam sealer, etc. It seem the stuff you make the auto stuff from needs some fairly expensive equipment to keep the EPA happy.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Belt line leaks [message #354551 is a reply to message #354123] |
Fri, 08 May 2020 20:50 |
Stu Rasmussen
Messages: 130
Registered: January 2019
Location: Silverton, OR
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thank you Jim,
I have been a bit offline recently but wanted to be sure I thanked you
appropriately for the information.
Stu
On 4/25/2020 11:43 AM, James Hupy via Gmclist wrote:
> This may. is specifically aimed at Stu R. but may also interest others.
> The sealant that I frequently use on leaks where it is visible after
> application is:
>
> 3M MARINE ADHESIVE SEALANT #5200. This number is good for the caulking tube
> quantity which I use. 10 fluid oz. Permanent, High Strength, for use on
> gelcoat/fiberglass, wood, and others. I does not fully cure until 7 days @
> 70° F. or higher. It is not cheap.
>
> The product that I use for windows and windshields is also a 3M product in
> a caulking tube. 3M Window-Weld Super Fast Urethane product code #08609
> Black. 10.5 fl oz. You do not have much working time with this one.
>
> And lastly, I use 3M Black Super Weatherstrip and Gasket Adhesive. Fast
> drying. Comes in a tube like toothpaste. 5 fl.oz. Product Code #08008. You
> don't have all day on this one either. Smells acrid, like contact adhesive.
> If you get this stuff on your hands, you will wear it off.
> All three of these are expensive. But, they work. The Marine stuff I
> got at Ace Hardware in S.Salem. The other two, I get from an automotive
> paint store.
> Just what I use, and have success with long term. As with all this stuff,
> cleanliness is the key to success. If you have any residual silicone
> products on your work, your results will not make you happy. I use every
> cleaning product in the book to get rid of silicone, every last trace of
> it.
> I have been known to cut and buff surfaces just to make sure. Roof
> end caps where the clearance lights are, is a prime example. Every
> knucklehead in the world hops up there and squeezes out copious gobs of the
> stuff around those lights. I totally remove them, and their molyscrew
> anchors, then cut and buff the end caps back to the joint. Takes time. But
> no leaks is the payoff.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:54 AM James Hupy wrote:
>
>> There are literally dozens of high quality flexible sealants on the
>> market. The TWO QUALITIES that are absolutely essential to them to perform
>> the job at hand are:
>> 1. Their ability to bond to the materials that they are being used on.
>> (Plastic gel coat, painted metal, etc.)
>> 2. They must remain flexible after they are cured.
>> And a third quality that is very, very important to me, but might not
>> concern others, is that the product contain absolutely NO SILICONE!! NO
>> EXCEPTIONS. But, that is just my aversion to the stuff.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:37 AM Shawn Harris via Gmclist > gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Jim Bounds recommends Wurth Bond'n Seal. That is what I used. Its
>>> expensive stuff but works great. I tried to find an online retailer to no
>>> avail.
>>> Ordered them from Jim.
>>> --
>>> Shawn Harris
>>> North Vancouver,
>>> Canada
>>> 1977 Palm Beach 403
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Stu Rasmussen W7QJ
Silverton, OR
'77 Birchaven
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