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Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351309]

Tue, 07 January 2020 08:54

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Kathy and I are heading toward Big Bend National Park after work Thursday afternoon. The plan, depending on how early a start we can get, is to spend Thursday night at Hal Kading's business at the Las Cruces airport, then head to Marfa, TX for an overnighter at the Marfa Lights Viewing area on Friday night before heading to Rio Grande Village on Saturday for a several night stay.

These are all dry camping locations. The problem is that, depending on which weather forecast you look at, the overnight low in Marfa is supposed to get as low as 22 degrees on Friday night. I'm not worried about the inside plumbing freezing since there will be two warm bodies emitting a few BTUs, albeit under a stack of blankets, and we can always kick in the furnace, but I am concerned with the macerator freezing and sustaining some damage.

Is this a legitimate concern? Should I run some RV antifreeze through it before we leave (we won't be dumping until we get to Big Bend)? Or should I just not worry about it. I think the coldest dry camping we have ever done has been at Joshua Tree National Park, about five years ago, but the temps only went down to the high 20s there and it warmed up nicely during the day.

Thanks

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351310 is a reply to message #351309]

Tue, 07 January 2020 09:24

Justin Brady

Messages: 769
Registered: April 2015
Location: Bell Buckle, TN

Karma: 11

Senior Member

Carl,, Do you have a valve between the macerator and the tank?
Most are setup this way, if so you can close that valve then drain the macerator.

Justin Brady http://www.thegmcrv.com/ 1976 Palm Beach 455

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351315 is a reply to message #351309]

Tue, 07 January 2020 12:45

lqqkatjon

Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN

Karma: 5

Senior Member

Carl,

I am jealous. I was part of building a fiber to the Home project south of Marfa, TX years ago, and was amazed at that crazy town. that area and Big Bend park is on my bucket list of places I hope to someday spend some time seeing in the GMC. make sure you get a good photo of your GMC sitting by the Prada museum.

As to your macerator, I personally don't think you will have any issues, as it will warm up during the day, so you are not talking any "hard freeze".

but if you are overly concerned, you can either wrap it in some insulation. or at the time you dump before you deal with freezing, pour a quart of antifreeze in the toilet, and bump the macerator button a couple times to get that mix into it.

I usually have my macerator full of antifreeze(green), when I let it sit for winter. Last thing I do when I final winterize, is to get green out of the hose into a bucket.
I then have used the tank itself, and not worried about the macerator freezing. I tried to put rock salt into the black tank to keep the liquid in that from freezing, but I am not sure that helped any(you don't want rock salt in the macerator... when I use my black tank in the winter- I am dumping via the 3" dump). Last time I did that, when I went to drain the black tank, water drained out, but there was a 1/2" sheet of ice midway up froze across the entire tank. ended up having to blow hot air down the toilet for a while to get that to thaw out on a warmer day(for me that is like 25 degrees out).

We now have -100 rated antifreeze(think it is boiler antifreeze- I am not sure as we get it in 50 gallon drums) we use everyday at work now. So I will probably switch from green to that next time. We are having to winterize everything constantly at work, because now everything(hammer drills and core drills for my crews) has a water hook up for dealing with drilling because of the silica.

Jon Roche 75 palm beach EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now. St. Cloud, MN http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351317 is a reply to message #351309]

Tue, 07 January 2020 12:54

Matt Colie

Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan

Karma: 7

Senior Member

Carl,

During the first years we had the coach, we travel in the late fall. (Snow is common in late fall at our latitude.) While I did have a macerator, we never had issues with the potable plumbing even though we were not interested to run the LP heat (all we had).

Here is a good part. Many places use urea as an ice remover. It is better than salt. (More expensive if purchased unused.) If you limit your potable water use and do use the head (toilet), you should have enough antifreeze in the black plumbing naturally.

Matt

Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351319 is a reply to message #351309]

Tue, 07 January 2020 18:40

JohnL455

Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL

Karma: 12

Senior Member

This is why I put the macerator install on hold. Been caught with rapidly dropping temps in the fall. Last episode was October in Limon Co where a sandstorm came up at dusk, Coach was rocking up and down for hours. Couldn't open door due to wind. At sun up the camp water spigot was frozen solid. Driving to Limon the dash AC was on. Mother Nature can really turn fast. Keep us posted on the macerator. I would like one especially for dumping at home so I don't get stuck on my own grass again!

John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351320 is a reply to message #351319]

Tue, 07 January 2020 19:47

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Thanks for all the great advice and suggestions. I rebuilt the valve coming out of the tank when I replaced the waste tank a few years back, but I don't think it's sealing well enough to keep the macerator dry. I'm guessing I will not have a problem with it based on what Matt said about the 'natural' antifreeze, but I will probably drag myself under the back and zip tie some insulation around the macerator just to be on the safe side.

I remember Dan Gregg telling me that his macerator froze one time and he had to wait until it thawed out to empty his tank. It is such a small area that has liquid in it that I'm thinking it could freeze without cracking it. I will report back.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351323 is a reply to message #351320]

Tue, 07 January 2020 22:20

Hal StClair

Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM

Karma: -12

Senior Member

Carl, I've had it both ways so to speak. I had the macerator freeze and break while parked outside at home in Rio Rancho BUT, just this past Thanksgiving survived 1 degree weather at the Grand Canyon without harm-go figure. Of course I didn't try to use the pump at those temperatures but it managed to live through the deep freeze.
Have fun, Hal

"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane." 1977 Royale 101348, 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered, 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout, Rio Rancho, NM

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351325 is a reply to message #351323]

Wed, 08 January 2020 08:29

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Hal StClair wrote on Tue, 07 January 2020 21:20

Carl, I've had it both ways so to speak. I had the macerator freeze and break while parked outside at home in Rio Rancho BUT, just this past Thanksgiving survived 1 degree weather at the Grand Canyon without harm-go figure. Of course I didn't try to use the pump at those temperatures but it managed to live through the deep freeze.
Have fun, Hal

Thanks Hal,

Like I said, I'll drag myself under the coach and wrap some insulation around the pump and hope for the best. If it freezes, it should be good to go by the time we get to the campground at Big Bend, and hopefully it will be a little warmer there.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351326 is a reply to message #351309]

Wed, 08 January 2020 09:35

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

I carry a clip on lgiht in a round reflector for things like this. 60 Watts overnight doesn't kill the little inverter I have and the light clipped under and aimed at the macerator will jkeep it from freezing. Where there's electric hookup I skip the inverter and save the battery.

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351328 is a reply to message #351326]

Wed, 08 January 2020 10:52

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

You might want to install a small heating pad on the bottom of the macerator before covering it with insulation. They come in various wattages and at 12 volt or 120 volt.

The following one is 20 watts at 12 volts with the heat applied directly to the macerator. That is less than 2 amps draw. We use them at 12 volt for diesel fuel filter heaters. Some also come with built in thermostats.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Heater-Pad-12V-DC-80x100mm-For-3D-Printer-Heated-Bed-Heating-2019-Top/193128349698?hash=item2cf758c002:g:DwIAAOSwZpV djpSc

Look on Aliexpress or Banggood if you do not find what you want here on ebay.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351329 is a reply to message #351328]

Wed, 08 January 2020 11:03

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

Another option is heat cable. Comes in 120 volt, 12 and 24 volt variety.
Various lengths with accordingly different resistances (wattage ) just wrap
stuff and plug them in.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 8:53 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist
wrote:

> You might want to install a small heating pad on the bottom of the
> macerator before covering it with insulation. They come in various
> wattages and at
> 12 volt or 120 volt.
>
> The following one is 20 watts at 12 volts with the heat applied directly
> to the macerator. That is less than 2 amps draw. We use them at 12 volt
> for diesel fuel filter heaters. Some also come with built in thermostats.
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Heater-Pad-12V-DC-80x100mm-For-3D-Printer-Heated-Bed-Heating-2019-Top/193128349698?hash=item2cf758c002:g:DwIAAOSwZpV djpSc
>
>
> Look on Aliexpress or Banggood if you do not find what you want here on
> ebay.
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351330 is a reply to message #351329]

Wed, 08 January 2020 11:53

rallymaster

Messages: 662
Registered: February 2004
Location: North Plains, ORYGUN

Karma: -4

Senior Member

Hal, do you remember what the temp was at home when it froze & broke???

RonC
================

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:20:15 -0700 Hal StClair via Gmclist
writes:
> Carl, I've had it both ways so to speak. I had the macerator freeze
> and break while parked outside at home in Rio Rancho BUT, just this
> past
> Thanksgiving survived 1 degree weather at the Grand Canyon without
> harm-go figure. Of course I didn't try to use the pump at those
> temperatures but it
> managed to live through the deep freeze.
> Have fun, Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
1978 Eleganza II

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Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
78 Eleganza II

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351332 is a reply to message #351330]

Wed, 08 January 2020 13:26

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

We use the fresh wate RV antifreeze full strength and put it down the
toilet and run the masserator so it fills up with that fluid.
Car antifreeze is not considered to be dumped .

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 9:55 AM rallymaster--- via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

>
>
> Hal, do you remember what the temp was at home when it froze & broke???
>
> RonC
> ================
>
> On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:20:15 -0700 Hal StClair via Gmclist
> writes:
>> Carl, I've had it both ways so to speak. I had the macerator freeze
>> and break while parked outside at home in Rio Rancho BUT, just this
>> past
>> Thanksgiving survived 1 degree weather at the Grand Canyon without
>> harm-go figure. Of course I didn't try to use the pump at those
>> temperatures but it
>> managed to live through the deep freeze.
>> Have fun, Hal
>> --
>> 1977 Royale 101348,
>>
>> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>>
> Ron & Linda Clark
> North Plains, ORYGUN
> 1978 Eleganza II
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351334 is a reply to message #351332]

Wed, 08 January 2020 14:41

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Heat pad is a good idea, but I don't think I have time to get one at this late date. Maybe a 12v light bulb as a heat source. I have done as Johnny B suggested before with a light underneath, but I won't be plugged in and I hate to have the extra draw of the inverter all night.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351335 is a reply to message #351334]

Wed, 08 January 2020 15:09

mghamms

Messages: 466
Registered: March 2016
Location: Ware, Massachusetts

Karma: 2

Senior Member

I haven't installed my poop pump yet so no experience there.
I have had a washing machine pump freeze twice, dumb tenant can't close a door tight, thawed it out and still works fine.
I'd just leave it be.

1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351340 is a reply to message #351335]

Wed, 08 January 2020 17:49

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

I had some heavy duty fireplace insulation left over from when I insulated the gas tanks, so I wrapped some of that around the pump. zip tied it in place, and I'll call it good. Hoping for the best.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351346 is a reply to message #351330]

Wed, 08 January 2020 21:23

Hal StClair

Messages: 971
Registered: March 2013
Location: Rio Rancho NM

Karma: -12

Senior Member

rallymaster wrote on Wed, 08 January 2020 10:53

Hal, do you remember what the temp was at home when it froze & broke???

RonC
================

On Tue, 07 Jan 2020 21:20:15 -0700 Hal StClair via Gmclist
writes:
> Carl, I've had it both ways so to speak. I had the macerator freeze
> and break while parked outside at home in Rio Rancho BUT, just this
> past
> Thanksgiving survived 1 degree weather at the Grand Canyon without
> harm-go figure. Of course I didn't try to use the pump at those
> temperatures but it
> managed to live through the deep freeze.
> Have fun, Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
Ron & Linda Clark
North Plains, ORYGUN
1978 Eleganza II

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Ron,
I don't think it was below 10 but we had some wind which probably did it in. I had winterized the coach at the time but hadn't run the pink stuff through the macerator not realizing there could be a freeze issue with them. I was pleasantly surprised we had no damage at 1 degree though.
Hal

"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane." 1977 Royale 101348, 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered, 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout, Rio Rancho, NM

[Updated on: Wed, 08 January 2020 21:30]

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351348 is a reply to message #351330]

Thu, 09 January 2020 04:51

Ken Burton

Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana

Karma: 10

Senior Member

For your short term need of a couple of days not colder than 20 F:
1. Dump the Black tank
2. Leave the valve open and drive the coach around for a couple miles and up hill if possible.
3. Bring it back and close the valves.
4. Get 3 gallons of RV antifreeze at Menards or Home Depot or TSC.
5. Dump at least 2 and probably 3 gallons down the drains of the kitchen sink, bathroom sink, and floor drain. You will end up with close to 3 gallons in the black tank which should mix with anything still there to lower the freeze point at least 10 or 15 degrees which is all you need. It will cost you $10 or $12 plus the gas from driving and will give you cheap peace of mind.

Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351468 is a reply to message #351348]

Mon, 20 January 2020 13:32

Carl S.

Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.

Karma: 13

Senior Member

Okay, so the macerator survived the 19 degree night at the Marfa Lights viewing area unscathed. Yay! I don't know whether it was the 'natural antifreeze' or the insulation that did it, but it worked out fine.

As to Kathy and me, we piled a couple of extra blankets on the bed and toughed it out until morning when we switched on the thermostat and took the chill off with the propane furnace. Actually, we were quite comfortable. Man, it sure gets cold on those West Texas Winter nights! We used more propane this time than we ever have on a trip.

Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ. Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member

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Re: [GMCnet] Cold Weather Dry Camping [message #351607 is a reply to message #351348]

Thu, 09 January 2020 09:21

jimk

Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA

Karma: 9

Senior Member

Also, keep in mind that the fresh water system can freeze , so we leave the
lower cabinets open to allow warm air to circulate at night when the temp
is lower and the water is not used.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:52 AM Ken Burton via Gmclist <
gmclist@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> For your short term need of a couple of days not colder than 20 F:
> 1. Dump the Black tank
> 2. Leave the valve open and drive the coach around for a couple miles and
> up hill if possible.
> 3. Bring it back and close the valves.
> 4. Get 3 gallons of RV antifreeze at Menards or Home Depot or TSC.
> 5. Dump at least 2 and probably 3 gallons down the drains of the kitchen
> sink, bathroom sink, and floor drain. You will end up with close to 3
> gallons in the black tank which should mix with anything still there to
> lower the freeze point at least 10 or 15 degrees which is all you need. It
> will cost you $10 or $12 plus the gas from driving and will give you cheap
> peace of mind.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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