| Re: [GMCnet] Tid Bit. When making changes to your GMC. Does that change differ from proven automotive engineering practices. [message #332120 is a reply to message #332118] |
Tue, 15 May 2018 15:16   |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I have owned VW Rabbits, one with a 16valve GTI option, and two PT
cruisers. One 5 speed stick normally aspirated, and one high performance
turbocharged dream cruiser with performance handling package. I still have
that one. Turn off the traction control, power brake it a bit to spool up
the turbo, and whoa baby, hang on. Ya gotta pay attention to it. Front
wheel drive cars are way different than rear wheel drive.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
On Tue, May 15, 2018, 1:05 PM Fred wrote:
> > Whaddya mean, "traction problems"?
>> Just because it won't move on wet grass if the grass is slightly longer
>> under the front wheels???
>
>
>
> some say front wheel drives have a traction advantage but all my real
> world experiences tell me otherwise. Ive refused to own one as a personal
> driver
> upto now but the GMC is such an exceptional machine that Im willing to
> finally own a front wheel drive (I almost puked writing that)
>
> the only traction advantage any front wheel drive has would be going in
> reverse and if the control arms are not even on any front wheel drive it
> would
> be less than optimal. optimal and front wheel drive dont even go
> together.. LOL!
>
> the only GMC Ive actually driven so far was on a test drive. it was mostly
> original and had really old tires but it broke traction on dry, level
> pavement very easily. like less than half throttle. it had been sitting
> for a while so Im not sure if it had brakes dragging or something though.
>
> Ive been told there is a guy locally with over 600hp in his and it will do
> 50mph rolling burnouts which usually would be impressive (if RWD or AWD)
> but being front wheel drive, it doesnt surprise or impress me.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tid Bit. When making changes to your GMC. Does that change differ from proven automotive engineering practices. [message #332121 is a reply to message #332118] |
Tue, 15 May 2018 15:47 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
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Senior Member |
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I have driven both front an rear wheel drive vehicles in snow and Ice. Many
winter trips over Donor Pass and Teton pass. The front wheel drive has
always been better for me than the rear wheel drive. When a rear wheel
drive brakes traction it has a tendency to get going sideways. Most cars
have close to 2/3 of the weigh on the front wheels with only the driver
onboard. The amount of weight transfer in accelertion is insignificant
under normanl conditions. We are not acclerating like a dragster which does
get significant weight transfer. We are not pulling heavy loads. Our
problem is when the friction coeffishent aprochas 0, we would like to have
all weigh on the drive wheels. In the winter time my father would put 400
lbs of coal up agenst the tailgate of our 1/2 ton pickup. It was rear wheel
drive but without the added weight on the rear drive wheels it would get
stuck real easy. Weight on the drive wheels * friction coeffishent
determins maximum thrust.
Some of our old truck tires have a lower friction coeffishent than our cars
do so the wheels spin easier than car tires. We tipicly do not put mud and
snow rated tires on our MH.
On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Fred wrote:
> > Whaddya mean, "traction problems"?
>> Just because it won't move on wet grass if the grass is slightly longer
>> under the front wheels???
>
>
>
> some say front wheel drives have a traction advantage but all my real
> world experiences tell me otherwise. Ive refused to own one as a personal
> driver
> upto now but the GMC is such an exceptional machine that Im willing to
> finally own a front wheel drive (I almost puked writing that)
>
> the only traction advantage any front wheel drive has would be going in
> reverse and if the control arms are not even on any front wheel drive it
> would
> be less than optimal. optimal and front wheel drive dont even go
> together.. LOL!
>
> the only GMC Ive actually driven so far was on a test drive. it was mostly
> original and had really old tires but it broke traction on dry, level
> pavement very easily. like less than half throttle. it had been sitting
> for a while so Im not sure if it had brakes dragging or something though.
>
> Ive been told there is a guy locally with over 600hp in his and it will do
> 50mph rolling burnouts which usually would be impressive (if RWD or AWD)
> but being front wheel drive, it doesnt surprise or impress me.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
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Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tid Bit. When making changes to your GMC. Does that change differ from proven automotive engineering practices. [message #332124 is a reply to message #332105] |
Tue, 15 May 2018 17:18 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Matt,
Your note below reminded me that I DO have a heavier (Caspro) front sway
bar on Tweety=Bird. Perhaps that explains my
total satisfaction with the 1-Ton. I swapped that bar with the X-PB my son
now has in an effort to make it possible to level that one. Only removing
the rear two sway bars accomplished that end. :-)
Ken H.
On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 1:25 PM Matt Colie wrote:
> ...
> It had a 1-ton mod and it did have nice brakes, but it also had a
> different handling issue when pushed into a
> corner. I knew from experience that it was caused by adverse camber.
> This might be mitigated if one was to install a much heavier sway (really
> it is
> an anti-roll) bar in the front so there is less differential change in any
> cornering situation.
>
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tid Bit. When making changes to your GMC. Does that change differ from proven automotive engineering practices. [message #332127 is a reply to message #332122] |
Tue, 15 May 2018 17:57 |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Attaching the motor to the wheel that steers might be one reason.
But I agree that for competition with skilled drivers rear drive is better.
That’s not what we have with the GMC, of course. Wet grass is often the
problem, and a 12,000-pound vehicle with 4000 of that on the drive wheels
is the issue. There is more weight transfer than people realize.
My light 23 is better—less weight behind the rear wheels, and a higher
percentage on the front.
The problem occurs in inaved, grassy campground slots. When I am faced with
wet grass and it is level, I ease the throttle—I get more traction if I
don’t shear the ground surface. If the parking spot is a hill, I park where
I can reverse to go up the hill, or simply roll with gravity going down it.
An old trick that works is to put a partner into the toad and use it for
drive thrust.
But it’s simply never an issue on any pavement a GMC is likely to see.
In return for that occasional problem, we don’t need stairs to get into the
coach, and the center of gravity is very low. That’s a good trade off.
Rick “who has never been profoundly stuck, but who has occasionally helped
others” Denney
On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:22 PM Fred wrote:
> ever wonder why there are no front wheel drive motorbikes?
>
>
> I dont. LOL!
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Rick Denney
73 x-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Off-list email to rick at rickdenney dot com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tid Bit. When making changes to your GMC. Does that change differ from proven automotive engineering practices. [message #332131 is a reply to message #332066] |
Tue, 15 May 2018 18:42 |
bwevers
Messages: 597
Registered: October 2010
Location: San Jose
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I've had the one ton front end for 7 years with 2 different revisions.
The newer version of the kit has many unseen improvements, such as
better accuracy in the lower ball joint location. And the newer
axles are more precise. I also went through the hassle of relocating
the upper control arm pivots upward, using K2500 arms and ball joints.
I can definitely feel the improvement. It tracks straight. Raising
the upper control arms also reduces the load on the torsion bars.
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tid Bit. When making changes to your GMC. Does that change differ from proven automotive engineering practices. [message #332136 is a reply to message #332066] |
Tue, 15 May 2018 19:53 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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So it looks like
The one ton is less expensive than a proper rebuild of the stock front end.
If you find yourself examining the corner(s) of the envelope, particularly without warning, you're likely better of in the stock setup.
If you need to stop panic style, the one - ton might be marginally better. Both benefit greatly from reaction arms.
Way more of the one - ton components - except those fabbed for the GMC - than there were originals.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tid Bit. When making changes to your GMC. Does that change differ from proven automotive engineering practices. [message #332158 is a reply to message #332118] |
Wed, 16 May 2018 09:30 |
johnd01
Messages: 354
Registered: July 2017
Location: Sacrameot
Karma: -1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I have driven both front an rear wheel drive vehicles in snow and Ice. Many
winter trips over Donor Pass and Teton pass. The front wheel drive has
always been better for me than the rear wheel drive. When a rear wheel
drive brakes traction it has a tendency to get going sideways. Most cars
have close to 2/3 of the weigh on the front wheels with only the driver
onboard. The amount of weight transfer in accelertion is insignificant
under normanl conditions. We are not acclerating like a dragster which does
get significant weight transfer. We are not pulling heavy loads. Our
problem is when the friction coeffishent aprochas 0, we would like to have
all weigh on the drive wheels. In the winter time my father would put 400
lbs of coal up agenst the tailgate of our 1/2 ton pickup. It was rear wheel
drive but without the added weight on the rear drive wheels it would get
stuck real easy. Weight on the drive wheels * friction coeffishent
determins maximum thrust.
Some of our old truck tires have a lower friction coeffishent than our cars
do so the wheels spin easier than car tires. We tipicly do not put mud and
snow rated tires on our MH.
On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Fred wrote:
> > Whaddya mean, "traction problems"?
>> Just because it won't move on wet grass if the grass is slightly longer
>> under the front wheels???
>
>
>
> some say front wheel drives have a traction advantage but all my real
> world experiences tell me otherwise. Ive refused to own one as a personal
> driver
> upto now but the GMC is such an exceptional machine that Im willing to
> finally own a front wheel drive (I almost puked writing that)
>
> the only traction advantage any front wheel drive has would be going in
> reverse and if the control arms are not even on any front wheel drive it
> would
> be less than optimal. optimal and front wheel drive dont even go
> together.. LOL!
>
> the only GMC Ive actually driven so far was on a test drive. it was mostly
> original and had really old tires but it broke traction on dry, level
> pavement very easily. like less than half throttle. it had been sitting
> for a while so Im not sure if it had brakes dragging or something though.
>
> Ive been told there is a guy locally with over 600hp in his and it will do
> 50mph rolling burnouts which usually would be impressive (if RWD or AWD)
> but being front wheel drive, it doesnt surprise or impress me.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
*John Phillips*
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
Johnd01
John Phillips
Avion A2600 TZE064V101164
Rancho Cordova, CA (Sacramento)
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