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Enviro-Safe [message #276486]

Wed, 22 April 2015 16:48

jtfred

Messages: 132
Registered: January 2015
Location: Grand Marais, MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I just ran across Enviro-Safe on Amazon selling for $54.95 with free shipping. Can anyone verify if this is similar to Duracool? Here are the links:

http://www.amazon.com/Enviro-Safe-R134a-Replacement-Refrigerant-Dye/dp/B008WA7E36/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1429727508&sr=8-8&keywords=r12a
http://tinyurl.com/khfvhuc

John Fredrikson
Fayetteville, GA
1978 Eleganza II

John Fredrikson Grand Marais, MN 1978 Eleganza

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Re: [GMCnet] Enviro-Safe [message #276489 is a reply to message #276486]

Wed, 22 April 2015 17:40

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

John,

I read all the reviews and one notes:

By Johnathannb

This review is from: 1 Case of Enviro-Safe R134a R12 Replacement AC Refrigerant + Dye 12 Can

Having viewed the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) it appears this companies refrigerants are comprised of 100% Alkanes. A little
more looking about reveals (I don't pretend to be brilliant, just curious) more commonly we know "Alkanes" as gases such as propane,
butane, methane, ethane, etc. It may be perfectly fine to use something this combustible in your home or car, but it's probably not
unfair to ask the company for a bit more clarification on why it's not potentially hazardous

I don't remember anyone on the GMCnet mentioning this product so I would give the company a call and ask it their product is the
same as Dura Cool or Frosty Cool.

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fredrikson

I just ran across Enviro-Safe on Amazon selling for $54.95 with free shipping. Can anyone verify if this is similar to Duracool?
Here are the links:

http://www.amazon.com/Enviro-Safe-R134a-Replacement-Refrigerant-Dye/dp/B008WA7E36/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1429727508&sr=8-8&keywords=
r12a
http://tinyurl.com/khfvhuc

John

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: [GMCnet] Enviro-Safe [message #276490 is a reply to message #276489]

Wed, 22 April 2015 18:09

A Hamilto

Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011

Karma: 39

Senior Member

USAussie wrote on Wed, 22 April 2015 17:40

John,
I read all the reviews and one notes:

By Johnathannb

This review is from: 1 Case of Enviro-Safe R134a R12 Replacement AC Refrigerant + Dye 12 Can

Having viewed the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) it appears this companies refrigerants are comprised of 100% Alkanes. A little
more looking about reveals (I don't pretend to be brilliant, just curious) more commonly we know "Alkanes" as gases such as propane,
butane, methane, ethane, etc. It may be perfectly fine to use something this combustible in your home or car, but it's probably not
unfair to ask the company for a bit more clarification on why it's not potentially hazardous

I don't remember anyone on the GMCnet mentioning this product so I would give the company a call and ask it their product is the
same as Dura Cool or Frosty Cool.

Regards,
Rob M.

Duracool and Frostycool are both pretty much the same mix of propane (~65%) and isobutane (~35%) (alkanes). Enviro-safe is almost certainly a nearly identical mix.

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Re: Enviro-Safe [message #276493 is a reply to message #276486]

Wed, 22 April 2015 18:17

rcjordan

Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...

Karma: 1

Senior Member

Found a couple of old threads

http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=tree&th=11496&goto=81633&rid=0

http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=175144&rid=0#msg_175144

SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC

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Re: Enviro-Safe [message #276494 is a reply to message #276486]

Wed, 22 April 2015 19:04

jhbridges

Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga

Karma: -74

Senior Member

Well, I have a question about the 'do NOT pull a vacuum' which I take to mean fill the system with whatever ambient air and moisture is in it at the time. Is this stuff sufficiently hygroscopic that you won't end up freezing the expansion valve? What's the benefit of not pulling the system down?

--johnny

Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons. Braselton, Ga. I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

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Re: [GMCnet] Enviro-Safe [message #276495 is a reply to message #276494]

Wed, 22 April 2015 19:57

USAussie

Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia

Karma: 6

Senior Member

Johnny,

The benefit is Enviro-Safe sells more product!

It gets people that don't have a vacuum pump to buy their product, fill their system, and then get told when the expansion valve
freezes that in their situation there must have been excessive moisture in the system and they'll have dump the Enviro-Safe they
added and evacuate the system for a period to dry out the moisture.

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny Bridges

Well, I have a question about the 'do NOT pull a vacuum' which I take to mean fill the system with whatever ambient air and moisture
is in it at the time. Is this stuff sufficiently hygroscopic that you won't end up freezing the expansion valve? What's the
benefit of not pulling the system down?

--johnny

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Regards, Rob M. (USAussie) The Pedantic Mechanic Sydney, Australia '75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428 '75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

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Re: Enviro-Safe [message #276496 is a reply to message #276494]

Wed, 22 April 2015 20:54

Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009

Karma: 0

Senior Member

They seem to have two flavors of envirosafe now, the "regular" stuff that says don't pull a vacuum, and the "industrial" version that says you should:
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/Default.asp?id=14&t=refrigerant&Trying=ON

I have no idea what the difference is. I've gone through over a case of the regular envirosafe so far in my quest to get a working ac system.
I'm not sure at this point if the low pressures (high side and low) I'm seeing are a problem with our system or something with the envirosafe, but
I've now ordered a case of FrostyCool since others here have used it successfully. If I were going with envirosafe again, I'd try the "industrial"
version (which may be the same as their "regular" but for a buck more a can, for all I know).

Karen
1975 26'

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Re: Enviro-Safe [message #276517 is a reply to message #276486]

Thu, 23 April 2015 08:50

jtfred

Messages: 132
Registered: January 2015
Location: Grand Marais, MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I called Enviro-Safe this morning to ask about their product. The tech confirmed that the R134a Refrigerant with Dye is comparable with Duracool. He said that the Industrial R134a Replacement product had additives that "makes it colder". I asked about the difference between the two products and pulling a vacuum and he said you wouldn't need to for either. He said they haven't seen any issues with not pulling vacuum.

It sounds like a reasonable alternative with the free shipping from Amazon.

John

John Fredrikson Grand Marais, MN 1978 Eleganza

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Re: [GMCnet] Enviro-Safe [message #276525 is a reply to message #276517]

Thu, 23 April 2015 10:24

Mr ERFisher

Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005

Karma: 2

Senior Member

Read here
http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html#duracool

On Thursday, April 23, 2015, John Fredrikson wrote:

> I called Enviro-Safe this morning to ask about their product. The tech
> confirmed that the R134a Refrigerant with Dye is comparable with Duracool.
> He
> said that the Industrial R134a Replacement product had additives that
> "makes it colder". I asked about the difference between the two products and
> pulling a vacuum and he said you wouldn't need to for either. He said they
> haven't seen any issues with not pulling vacuum.
>
> It sounds like a reasonable alternative with the free shipping from Amazon.
>
> John
> --
> John Fredrikson
> Fayetteville, GA
> 1978 Eleganza
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>

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“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
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Re: Enviro-Safe [message #276555 is a reply to message #276494]

Thu, 23 April 2015 16:16

Keith V

Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 22 April 2015 19:04

Well, I have a question about the 'do NOT pull a vacuum' which I take to mean fill the system with whatever ambient air and moisture is in it at the time. Is this stuff sufficiently hygroscopic that you won't end up freezing the expansion valve? What's the benefit of not pulling the system down?

--johnny

I'm pretty sure "don't pull a vacuum' Means don't suck out your old refrigerant.
If your system has been open, I am really really sure you need to pull a vacuum!

If for no other reason than air does not cool....

Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com

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Re: Enviro-Safe [message #276559 is a reply to message #276555]

Thu, 23 April 2015 16:46

jtfred

Messages: 132
Registered: January 2015
Location: Grand Marais, MN

Karma: 0

Senior Member

I think best practice is to pull a vacuum on your system before adding the coolant. Envirosafe (and I think Duracool) says that you don't need to pull a vacuum to use their product. I'm not sure of the the down side to skipping the vacuum, but I'm planning to vacuum my system when I replace the front seal.

John

Keith V wrote on Thu, 23 April 2015 17:16

Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 22 April 2015 19:04
Well, I have a question about the 'do NOT pull a vacuum' which I take to mean fill the system with whatever ambient air and moisture is in it at the time. Is this stuff sufficiently hygroscopic that you won't end up freezing the expansion valve? What's the benefit of not pulling the system down?

--johnny

I'm pretty sure "don't pull a vacuum' Means don't suck out your old refrigerant.
If your system has been open, I am really really sure you need to pull a vacuum!

If for no other reason than air does not cool....

John Fredrikson Grand Marais, MN 1978 Eleganza

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Re: [GMCnet] Enviro-Safe [message #276563 is a reply to message #276559]

Thu, 23 April 2015 17:16

James Hupy

Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010

Karma: -62

Senior Member

Water is bad ju-ju in A/C systems no matter what the refrigerant is. Vacuum
to as close to 29.90 as you can get, leave it and see if it holds, if it
does, charge your GMC systems with 2.75 cans of Dura-Cool or similar and
enjoy the cool air.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
78 GMC ROYALE 403
On Apr 23, 2015 2:46 PM, "John Fredrikson" wrote:

> I think best practice is to pull a vacuum on your system before adding the
> coolant. Envirosafe (and I think Duracool) says that you don't need to pull
> a vacuum to use their product. I'm not sure of the the down side to
> skipping the vacuum, but I'm planning to vacuum my system when I replace
> the front
> seal.
>
> John
>
> Keith V wrote on Thu, 23 April 2015 17:16
>> Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 22 April 2015 19:04
>>> Well, I have a question about the 'do NOT pull a vacuum' which I take
> to mean fill the system with whatever ambient air and moisture is in it
>>> at the time. Is this stuff sufficiently hygroscopic that you won't
> end up freezing the expansion valve? What's the benefit of not pulling the
>>> system down?
>>>
>>> --johnny
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure "don't pull a vacuum' Means don't suck out your old
> refrigerant.
>> If your system has been open, I am really really sure you need to pull a
> vacuum!
>>
>> If for no other reason than air does not cool....
>
>
> --
> John Fredrikson
> Fayetteville, GA
> 1978 Eleganza
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Enviro-Safe [message #276570 is a reply to message #276559]

Thu, 23 April 2015 18:29

emerystora

Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004

Karma: 13

Senior Member

I think there has been some misreading of this somewhere along the line. If one is just discharging a system that has R12 or r134a and you still have a small amount of residual pressure in the system then is is not necessary to use a vacuum pump. However if you are replacing a seal, a receiver / driver or s compressor or hose, or other component where the system has been exposed to the outside air and water vapor then I feel it is absolutely necessary to completely evacuate the system.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

> On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:46 PM, John Fredrikson wrote:
>
> I think best practice is to pull a vacuum on your system before adding the coolant. Envirosafe (and I think Duracool) says that you don't need to pull
> a vacuum to use their product. I'm not sure of the the down side to skipping the vacuum, but I'm planning to vacuum my system when I replace the front
> seal.
>
> John
>
> Keith V wrote on Thu, 23 April 2015 17:16
>> Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 22 April 2015 19:04
>>> Well, I have a question about the 'do NOT pull a vacuum' which I take to mean fill the system with whatever ambient air and moisture is in it
>>> at the time. Is this stuff sufficiently hygroscopic that you won't end up freezing the expansion valve? What's the benefit of not pulling the
>>> system down?
>>>
>>> --johnny
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure "don't pull a vacuum' Means don't suck out your old refrigerant.
>> If your system has been open, I am really really sure you need to pull a vacuum!
>>
>> If for no other reason than air does not cool....
>
>
> --
> John Fredrikson
> Fayetteville, GA
> 1978 Eleganza
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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