Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Propane generator?
| Propane generator? [message #192928] |
Thu, 13 December 2012 22:34  |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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Is anyone using a propane powered generator in their coach? As I was pondering the problems with gasoline degradation, I wondered if running the gen-set from the propane tank would make any sense. It seems that the generators can be converted to run on propane, and you wouldn't have to worry about gumming up the carb as the propane doesn't turn to gel like today's ethanol laced fuels do. When I contacted Generac about the use of ethanol laced fuels in their generators, they recommended using straight, non ethanol laced, gasoline.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator? [message #192931 is a reply to message #192928] |
Thu, 13 December 2012 22:44  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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did you miss my email this morning
http://gmcmotorhome.info/generator.html#dual
there are a few
gene
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 8:34 PM, George Rudawsky <GeorgeRud@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Is anyone using a propane powered generator in their coach? As I was
> pondering the problems with gasoline degradation, I wondered if running the
> gen-set from the propane tank would make any sense. It seems that the
> generators can be converted to run on propane, and you wouldn't have to
> worry about gumming up the carb as the propane doesn't turn to gel like
> today's ethanol laced fuels do. When I contacted Generac about the use of
> ethanol laced fuels in their generators, they recommended using straight,
> non ethanol laced, gasoline.
> --
> George Rudawsky
> Chicago, IL
> 75 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
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Alternator Protection Cable
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| Re: Propane generator? [message #192933 is a reply to message #192928] |
Fri, 14 December 2012 01:24 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Thu, 13 December 2012 20:34 |
Is anyone using a propane powered generator in their coach? As I was pondering the problems with gasoline degradation, I wondered if running the gen-set from the propane tank would make any sense.
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My wife hates the smell of gasoline. We converted the Onan to propane and have not regretted it for a minute. It starts instantly and runs without odor. She no longer says, "I am loosing brain cells" when we go to bed after running the Onan. I like to think I am polluting the world less and some of the carbon is burning off the head and piston.
I got my setup from this business:
http://www.propanecarbs.com/small_engines.html
Nice, helpful fellow.
Here is a little page I created when working with propanecarbs.com to explain what size unit I needed. The serial numbers for the Onan rendered the wrong size verturi piece.
http://www.pggp.com/Onan/
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator? [message #192937 is a reply to message #192933] |
Fri, 14 December 2012 04:03 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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thanks George for this
I am going to do this (X2)
will also post the links
have a cupa questions
- is there a final - all done - picture and where stuff mounts?
- is there a parts list with numbers of what to order
- I see a reference that there was some confusion on parts
nice job
gene
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:24 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>
> GeorgeRud wrote on Thu, 13 December 2012 20:34
> > Is anyone using a propane powered generator in their coach? As I was
> pondering the problems with gasoline degradation, I wondered if running the
> gen-set from the propane tank would make any sense.
>
> My wife hates the smell of gasoline. We converted the Onan to propane and
> have not regretted it for a minute. It starts instantly and runs without
> odor. She no longer says, "I am loosing brain cells" when we go to bed
> after running the Onan. I like to think I am polluting the world less and
> some of the carbon is burning off the head and piston.
>
> I got my setup from this business:
>
> http://www.propanecarbs.com/small_engines.html
>
> Nice, helpful fellow.
>
> Here is a little page I created when working with propanecarbs.com to
> explain what size unit I needed. The serial numbers for the Onan rendered
> the wrong size verturi piece.
>
> http://www.pggp.com/Onan/
>
>
> --
> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
> Best Wishes,
> George
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Propane generator? [message #193012 is a reply to message #192928] |
Sat, 15 December 2012 08:13 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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The dual fuel conversion would probably be the best choice. Keeping things in storage is where I think a bunch of problems can come up, and ilikethe propane option.
Any I sea how long a generator could. Run off the original propane tank? That could be a major determining factor of feasibility of such a project.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: Propane generator? [message #193047 is a reply to message #192928] |
Sat, 15 December 2012 22:39 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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I don't have an Onan propane conversion, but I do have an emergency generator that runs off propane. It's 6 kW and it will run about 6 hours on a 20 lb (4 gal) propane tank. That works out to about 1.5 hours per gallon. I'm guessing that unless you're running a couple of ACs, you'd be using less energy than my home.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator? [message #245946 is a reply to message #192937] |
Mon, 31 March 2014 20:40 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
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how is the propane generator doing. how many hours do you get running the a/c on a 20 pound bottle of lpg?
with the onan.
cleaner and smother running hotter maybe? Mickey anaheim ca 77 palm beach.
On Dec 14, 2012, at 2:03 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> thanks George for this
> I am going to do this (X2)
> will also post the links
> have a cupa questions
>
> - is there a final - all done - picture and where stuff mounts?
> - is there a parts list with numbers of what to order
> - I see a reference that there was some confusion on parts
>
> nice job
> gene
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:24 PM, George Beckman <gbeckman@pggp.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> GeorgeRud wrote on Thu, 13 December 2012 20:34
>>> Is anyone using a propane powered generator in their coach? As I was
>> pondering the problems with gasoline degradation, I wondered if running the
>> gen-set from the propane tank would make any sense.
>>
>> My wife hates the smell of gasoline. We converted the Onan to propane and
>> have not regretted it for a minute. It starts instantly and runs without
>> odor. She no longer says, "I am loosing brain cells" when we go to bed
>> after running the Onan. I like to think I am polluting the world less and
>> some of the carbon is burning off the head and piston.
>>
>> I got my setup from this business:
>>
>> http://www.propanecarbs.com/small_engines.html
>>
>> Nice, helpful fellow.
>>
>> Here is a little page I created when working with propanecarbs.com to
>> explain what size unit I needed. The serial numbers for the Onan rendered
>> the wrong size verturi piece.
>>
>> http://www.pggp.com/Onan/
>>
>>
>> --
>> '74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
>> Best Wishes,
>> George
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator? [message #245970 is a reply to message #245946] |
Mon, 31 March 2014 22:02 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| mickeysss wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 18:40 |
how is the propane generator doing. how many hours do you get running the a/c on a 20 pound bottle of lpg?
with the onan.
cleaner and smother running hotter maybe? Mickey anaheim ca 77 palm beach.
|
The Onan runs fine. I have run it at 5,000 feet altitude and it fired right up and ran well. I don't really think it is any quieter or smoother. It starts well, and I like that. It has never burped when put under a sudden load. And, Ruth doesn't complain about any gasoline smell. (She can smell one part per kazillian in a 40 mile per hour wind.)
The Onan was not my first rodeo. My '37 Ford flathead has been on propane for probably 12 years. Because it has a vacuum activated cutoff, it sometimes has to crank a bit if it has been sitting. I don't mind, lets the oil pressure come up. Once it starts it is like fuel injection.
I hear all sorts of dire predictions... it is going to eat the valves, etc. I try not to really crowd it on a hill, just in case. But in the meantime I drive it.
Propane is harder to light than gasoline so I have to watch the plugs in the pickup. They look beautiful but seem to require a little more attention. Never touched the Onan plugs.
Pickup oil stays cleaner. (Flatheads often have cruddy oil) Onan oil looks good.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: Propane generator? [message #246272 is a reply to message #192928] |
Thu, 03 April 2014 09:34 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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A lot of coaches had them OEM back before lawyers ruled the world.Never once had to decarb a propane genset. Oil stayed much cleaner too.
The valve wear issue may have been true vs leaded gas, but doubtful today.
Agree the biggest issue for most of us is limited propane capacity.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator? [message #246282 is a reply to message #246281] |
Thu, 03 April 2014 11:20 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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This is a S.W.A.G. approach but an Onan 6KW genset uses about .75 gallon of
gasoline an hour under full load. 50% load .50 gal per hr. As propane is
about 75% energy value of gasoline, and a 20# cylinder has about the equal
of 4 gallons of usable fuel, at 50% duty cycle there is about 1 hour plus a
bit of time per gallon of propane. If you do the math, at 70 degrees you
should be able to extract most of the vapor from the tank. I would
guestimate around 4.5 hours run time. Your math might vary, your load may
be less or more than my estimate, it might be colder or warmer, etc. etc. I
told you it was a S.W.A.G so don't hold me to exact tolerances here.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Bill D <Wildbillnick@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Part of the run time/tank size issue is if you use a vapor take off system
> the tank is the heat collector and a larger size engine can pull the tank
> temperature down to -40 resulting in no fuel pressure. I have never run a
> vapor take off system, I have always used a liquid withdrawal so I don't
> know how long a 20 lb would run an onan before freezing up. It will run
> longer with a 110 f outside temp than it will at 0 f at any rate. Liquid
> take off has a heat exchanger that you strap onto the exhaust system.
> --
> Bill D
> Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
> 1977 Kingsley
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| Re: Propane generator? [message #246283 is a reply to message #246281] |
Thu, 03 April 2014 11:32 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
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| WildBill wrote on Thu, 03 April 2014 09:02 |
Part of the run time/tank size issue is if you use a vapor take off system the tank is the heat collector and a larger size engine can pull the tank temperature down to -40 resulting in no fuel pressure. I have never run a vapor take off system, I have always used a liquid withdrawal so I don't know how long a 20 lb would run an onan before freezing up. It will run longer with a 110 f outside temp than it will at 0 f at any rate. Liquid take off has a heat exchanger that you strap onto the exhaust system.
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You just reminded me of a problem with propane. A friend of mine from Edmonton was down in the Quartzite area this winter he filled his almost empty propane tank (he has a 40ft pusher). He stored his rig for the month of December with no hookups.The freezer had about $1000 worth of salmon and halibut in it and the refer shut off in the near freezing night temperature. He lost all the fish. Apparently the fill up had a fair amount of butane in the mix cause his tank pressure was low. He couldn't even use his portable barbecue connected to the large tank on cold mornings. It worked fine with a little Colman tank. I told him he should have filled it in the frozen north rather then the much cheaper southern desert to be sure it was 100% propane.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
[Updated on: Thu, 03 April 2014 12:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Propane generator? [message #246289 is a reply to message #192928] |
Thu, 03 April 2014 11:52 |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273
Registered: January 2013
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One more thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that given the same generator running on propane vs. gasoline you will produce less power with propane than you will running on gasoline. Therefore, if you are drawing close to your maximum electrical power running on gasoline you will not get the same power output with propane. We considered propane in replacing our generator but opted for a gasoline powered generator for three reasons:
1. Gasoline is more readily available when traveling.
2. On board fuel supply is greater using gasoline.
3. Electrical power output is greater using gasoline.
FWIW,
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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| Re: Propane generator? [message #246360 is a reply to message #246289] |
Fri, 04 April 2014 08:24 |
Chris Tyler
Messages: 458
Registered: September 2013
Location: Odessa FL
Karma: 7
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| mickey szilagyi wrote on Thu, 03 April 2014 11:52 |
One more thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that given the same generator running on propane vs. gasoline you will produce less power with propane than you will running on gasoline. Therefore, if you are drawing close to your maximum electrical power running on gasoline you will not get the same power output with propane.
FWIW,
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I would have to contest that. The output of the genset is a funtion of RPM. As long as the mixture is correct and the RPM is adjusted the output would be the same.
76 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator? [message #246367 is a reply to message #246360] |
Fri, 04 April 2014 09:37 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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It's a 'volts per hertz' genset, you'll get 110 volts 60 Hz when it's turning 1800 rpm and loaded to less than maximum . When you load it above maximum , the engine speed will sag. It will sag at lower output using propane or natural gas than it will using gasoline. Onan rates them lower when used on propane or natural gas.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Chris Tyler <dtyler11@tampabay.rr.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator?
mickey szilagyi wrote on Thu, 03 April 2014 11:52
> One more thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that given the same generator running on propane vs. gasoline you will produce less power with propane than you will running on gasoline. Therefore, if you are drawing close to your maximum electrical power running on gasoline you will not get the same power output with propane.
>
> FWIW,
I would have to contest that. The output of the genset is a funtion of RPM. As long as the mixture is correct and the RPM is adjusted the output would be the same.
--
76 Glenbrook
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator? [message #246389 is a reply to message #246367] |
Fri, 04 April 2014 15:19 |
GMC.LES
Messages: 505
Registered: April 2014
Karma: -2
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In response to Chris,
The Onan genset is a constant RPM generator. A constant and stable 1800rpm is necessary to produce a stable 60Hz. The engine power output is determined by throttle setting which is controlled by the governor. As you increase electrical demand, it puts additional rotational load on the engine which would slow it down, but the governor opens the throttle to compensate and maintain 1800rpm. To describe exactly what limits power output of the Onan genset would require several paragraphs. Simply described, it is engine efficiency, energy content in the fuel, and the full throttle position of the carb. If you watch an Onan genset that has reached or exceeded it's max output, the governor will peg the throttle wide open and the engine RPM will drop and stay below 1800rpm. When the RPM drops, so does the voltage and the Hz, both of which need to be accurately maintained with a tight tolerance. Since propane has less energy than gasoline, the max engine output would be less, resulti
ng in less max Kw available from the genset.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
From: Chris Tyler <dtyler11@tampabay.rr.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Propane generator?
I would have to contest that. The output of the genset is a funtion of RPM. As long as the mixture is correct and the RPM is adjusted the output would be the same.
--
76 Glenbrook
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