Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH
| [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243716] |
Sun, 16 March 2014 06:34  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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"the rear suspension seminar at Montgomery."
Congrats on jumping into this pond, Ken
wonder if you are going to cover
*supplemental braking systems*
*-- NO mod to the OEM system is legal*
-- MS changes
-- # of wheels controlled
-- actuators, -- vacuum, hydraulic, spring loaded,
-- larger pads
-- after market mechanical systems
-- disk brakes
--
but to hold the gmc, till we can block the wheels:
- the OEM system will not hold a GMC on a hill
- we all use supplemental systems to get us out of the seat
- 99.9 % of GMC's use the "park pin" in the tranny
for our emergency brake (TINY PIN :>)
- KISS rod to hold the peddle
- hydraulic brake lock
http://gmcmotorhome.info/BRKLOCK.html
- vacuum backup pump
but
when:
- the engine is dead
- you are towing
- you are stuck on a hill
- you are trying to pull off the steering wheel to hold her
- you cannot get out of the seat
-
we all need a supplemental brake system....
i wish you the best of luck on this topic
be well
erf
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today ---
give him a URL and -------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243733 is a reply to message #243716] |
Sun, 16 March 2014 09:09  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Sun, 16 March 2014 07:34 |
"the rear suspension seminar at Montgomery."
Congrats on jumping into this pond, Ken
wonder if you are going to cover
*supplemental braking systems*
*-- NO mod to the OEM system is legal*-1
-- MS changes
-- # of wheels controlled
-- actuators, -- vacuum, hydraulic, spring loaded,
-- larger pads
-- after market mechanical systems
-- disk brakes
--
but to hold the gmc, till we can block the wheels:
- the OEM system will not hold a GMC on a hill -2
- we all use supplemental systems to get us out of the seat
- 99.9 % of GMC's use the "park pin" in the tranny
for our emergency brake (TINY PIN :>)
- KISS rod to hold the peddle
- hydraulic brake lock
http://gmcmotorhome.info/BRKLOCK.html
- vacuum backup pump
but
when:
- the engine is dead
- you are towing
- you are stuck on a hill
- you are trying to pull off the steering wheel to hold her
- you cannot get out of the seat
-
we all need a supplemental brake system....
i wish you the best of luck on this topic
be well
erf
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today ---
give him a URL and -------
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Gene,
We have a difference of opinion about the bolded text.
1 - This statement is in accurate as it would imply that any changes to the brake system would be a violation of some law any where. That simply is not true. With very few exceptions, all relating to emission controls. there are no federal restrictions as to what an owner may do to a vehicle. There are, however, a great number of state restrictions that may cover anything. But they (like California fuel handling) are limited to the state's jurisdiction.
2 - Until was damaged (and it will be repaired), my parking brake did hold the coach on any hill the would climb. (Yes, there was also a limit there.) This was before the floating back plate (that was when it was damaged.) Yes, the drums don't ever need adjusting if the factory adjusters are properly maintained. In the 35+K miles, I have only had to adjust the rear brakes as a direct result of backing them off to service the bearings. Then, when the brakes are properly readjusted, I have found that the parking brake cable needed a tweak.
One has to remember that these are not modern hardware.
Well 5H1T Miss Agnes, the backing plates don't even have holes to inspect the break shoe thickness (required on all builds since 1980 iirc). So, periodic removal of the non-floating drum (you have to open the bearing) is required anyway.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243739 is a reply to message #243733] |
Sun, 16 March 2014 09:28 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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>
>
> Gene,
>
> We have a difference of opinion about the bolded text.
>
> 1 - This statement is in accurate as it would imply that any changes to
> the brake system would be a violation of some law any where.
just do what works for you
but
nope
just saying when you are involved in a legal situation
your brake system will be listed as
*"MODIFIED- NOT OEM"*
>
>
> 2 - Until was damaged (and it will be repaired), my parking brake did hold
> the coach on any hill the would climb. (Yes, there was also a limit
> there.) This was before the floating back plate (that was when it was
> damaged.)
GOOD
> Yes, the drums don't ever need adjusting if the factory adjusters are
> properly maintained. In the 35+K miles,
i rebuilt all the rear drums with stock guts, and backed up a 100 miles,
still had to adjust the brakes every trip.
and lost the brakes of the "grape vine" 2 times in CA
till i put on all disk brakes
I have only had to adjust the rear brakes as a direct result of backing
> them off to service the bearings. Then, when the brakes are properly
> readjusted, I have found that the parking brake cable needed a tweak.
>
> One has to remember that these are not modern hardware.
> Well 5H1T Miss Agnes, the backing plates don't even have holes to inspect
> the break shoe thickness (required on all builds since 1980 iirc). So,
> periodic removal of the non-floating drum (you have to open the bearing) is
> required anyway.
>
> not fighting here
just want protection
jwid
erf
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic,
> once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
> '73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243836 is a reply to message #243795] |
Sun, 16 March 2014 19:12 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I don't see the question arising, but if it pops up, I'd personally lie like a rug. It is unlikely an adjuster will remove the wheels and chase part numbers, even if he has som,e concept of what he's looking at.
If you aren't as judgement-proof as I am, you may wanty to be concerned.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Jim Galbavy <j.galbavy@att.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH
Not so sure of changes to braking systems and are they legal. ...
but has anyone checked with their insurance carrier if they will cover a claim when safety parts that were originally engineered on the motorhome have been replaced with parts that were not certified. I guess my question is. ..... if I replace original parts with non engineered ones and I'm involved in a claim (my fault or not), will they cover my claim.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243896 is a reply to message #243855] |
Mon, 17 March 2014 08:44 |
corleyw
Messages: 130
Registered: June 2007
Location: Battle Ground, WA
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Isn't it more accurate to say that if the coaches brakes are modified they are no longer DOT certified? I doubt any of us here are qualified to say if they are "legal" or not. (Of course, if all the individual components are DOT certified, , , ???)
Just my thought, nothing more...
Corley
'76 Glenbrook
29 other vehicles
[Updated on: Mon, 17 March 2014 08:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243935 is a reply to message #243910] |
Mon, 17 March 2014 12:50 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
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| Jim Galbavy wrote on Mon, 17 March 2014 10:18 |
My question was not that simplistic as switching out shoes or disks. The question was: Will a carrier cover your coach if you change out the approved brake system with one developed by a nonrecognized source. When you switch out systems who assumes the risk? The insurance company? You? The person who sold them to you and/or installed them? Or the person you ran into? or he/she that ran into you. In a claim, the carrier will check out the systems. They are looking for anyway out of the claim. Hit a small import or subcompact with a GMC MH and there is going to be major damage.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
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Wow, do you think the ENTIRE aftermarket brake industry is in violation of the federal laws?
What about all the aftermarket suspension industry?
Do you really think there is anything anyone will or could do if you are in an accident with aftermarket equipment on your car?
If so, millions of people are criminally breaking the law.
Unless you willfully and knowingly operated a defective vehicle I really really doubt there is a court in the land that will say since you put better brakes on your coach and still couldn't stop in time you are guilty of breaking any law.
Also DOT is there to make sure manufacturers build good equipment, it does not apply to the vehicles owner I believe.
Also I don't think DOT certifies or lists anything, all they do is issue guidelines.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243950 is a reply to message #243946] |
Mon, 17 March 2014 13:46 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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DOES NOT MATTER GUYS
do what works for you,
it is not possible to say
- need 80 mm disk calipers
- need larger ms
- need mechanical parking brake
just do what is safe and works for you
is not possible to get the one true answer
is not possible to say
- TSM IS BAD
- DRUMS ARE BAD
- DRUMS ARE GOOD
- OEM MS IS BAN
-OEM MS IS GOOD
read the literature ,
http://gmcmotorhome.info/list.html#Brakes
and make up your own mind
jwid
erf
On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:32 AM, mike foster <mafoster1@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>
> Are you saying the guy who hit the GMC in the rear had a carrier who
> refused to pay for the GMC because the GMC had rear disc brakes?
>
> If so, I'm calling B.S.
>
>
> Jim Galbavy wrote on Mon, 17 March 2014 12:58
> > Ask your carrier. To my knowledge one carrier refused a claim when a GMC
> MH with disk brakes was rear ended. The GMC wasn't even at fault.
> >
> > jim galbavy
> > '73 x-CL ANNIE
> > Lake Mary, FL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Supplemental brake systems, kenH [message #243968 is a reply to message #243795] |
Mon, 17 March 2014 16:14 |
GMC_LES
Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal
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I guess that this situation should then apply to the many cheap substandard "off shore" parts that we are slowly being forced to use due to attrition. Do we really need to worry this much?
Regarding stock or modified brakes, what is better, rear-ending someone in a panic stop because your stock brakes were barely sufficient, then being determined as responsible because the expert claimed you were following too close?
OR,
Having someone rear-end you because your coach stopped in time to avoid the car in front of you? Then having your damage claim refused because of evidence of modified brakes?
I'd take the second scenario because it provides better safety and in most situations the person who hits you will be at fault, so there would be no reason for an insurance adjuster to assess the safety equipment on your coach.
If the damages to my modified coach were sufficiently high, i'd contest a refused claim, if minimal, i'd probably just leave it be. In either case i'd be looking to change insurance providers.
Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
On Mar 16, 2014, at 5:05 PM, Jim Galbavy <j.galbavy@att.net> wrote:
Not so sure of changes to braking systems and are they legal. ...
but has anyone checked with their insurance carrier if they will cover a claim when safety parts that were originally engineered on the motorhome have been replaced with parts that were not certified. I guess my question is. ..... if I replace original parts with non engineered ones and I'm involved in a claim (my fault or not), will they cover my claim.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
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Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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