Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Duracool in rooftop AC
| Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132475] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 14:37  |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
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Has it been tried? Any thoughts on compatibility with the compressor?
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132484 is a reply to message #132481] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 17:34  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
Rodney, if anyone takes you up on the offer keep in mind mailing flammable
items is a no-no.
As I understand it one of the additional advantages of Dura Cool is that the
compressor outlet pressure is much lower than with R-whatever.
I wonder if converting to this product would help the older Dou Therm units
stop making so much racket on start up?
I realize that you would be running risk of having two explosions on the
roof as the Dura Cool is propane based. ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rodney Hamilton
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 8:02 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC
In Canada we can buy 8oz cans of 22a at canadian tire stores and other
retailers. I have 5 or 6 cans in Malone NY, could send you a couple if you
want.
http://www.redtek.com/win_22a_prod.html
--
Rodney Hamilton
Late 76 PB, 455
Montreal Canada
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132486 is a reply to message #132484] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 17:42 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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HOWEVER, Duracool 22 is approved for use in air conditioners, meat coolers and house air conditioning. It is only the DOT, in their infinite wisdom, who have not allowed Duracool HC12a it to be an approved refill for R12 in an automotive application.
I am sure that you are not serious about explosions on the roof. The roof air conditioners are sealed units.
You don't have that problem in Australia where it is approved for Automotive use. I know that Australia was trying to ban R134a because of its toxic elements. Has that been done now?
Emery Stora
On Jun 28, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> G'day,
>
> Rodney, if anyone takes you up on the offer keep in mind mailing flammable
> items is a no-no.
>
> As I understand it one of the additional advantages of Dura Cool is that the
> compressor outlet pressure is much lower than with R-whatever.
>
> I wonder if converting to this product would help the older Dou Therm units
> stop making so much racket on start up?
>
> I realize that you would be running risk of having two explosions on the
> roof as the Dura Cool is propane based. ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Rodney Hamilton
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 8:02 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC
>
> In Canada we can buy 8oz cans of 22a at canadian tire stores and other
> retailers. I have 5 or 6 cans in Malone NY, could send you a couple if you
> want.
>
> http://www.redtek.com/win_22a_prod.html
>
> --
> Rodney Hamilton
> Late 76 PB, 455
> Montreal Canada
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132495 is a reply to message #132486] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 18:26 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Emery,
See the article below:
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/ozone/licences/vehicle-import.html
Items 4. & 5. in particular.
This document was updated 17 May 2011.
Of course I wasn't serious, I was poking some fun at the guys that are
worried that R-12a will cause a fire or explosion in the dash air!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 8:42 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC
HOWEVER, Duracool 22 is approved for use in air conditioners, meat coolers
and house air conditioning. It is only the DOT, in their infinite wisdom,
who have not allowed Duracool HC12a it to be an approved refill for R12 in
an automotive application.
I am sure that you are not serious about explosions on the roof. The roof
air conditioners are sealed units.
You don't have that problem in Australia where it is approved for Automotive
use. I know that Australia was trying to ban R134a because of its toxic
elements. Has that been done now?
Emery Stora
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132496 is a reply to message #132495] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 18:36 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Rob
How about this.
San Diego transit has buses running on natural gas with large tanks on the
top of the bus.
And we have folks upset about R-12a?
Talk about KA Boom!!!
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC
> Emery,
>
> See the article below:
>
> http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/ozone/licences/vehicle-import.html
>
> Items 4. & 5. in particular.
>
> This document was updated 17 May 2011.
>
> Of course I wasn't serious, I was poking some fun at the guys that are
> worried that R-12a will cause a fire or explosion in the dash air!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 8:42 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC
>
> HOWEVER, Duracool 22 is approved for use in air conditioners, meat coolers
> and house air conditioning. It is only the DOT, in their infinite wisdom,
> who have not allowed Duracool HC12a it to be an approved refill for R12 in
> an automotive application.
>
> I am sure that you are not serious about explosions on the roof. The roof
> air conditioners are sealed units.
>
> You don't have that problem in Australia where it is approved for
> Automotive
> use. I know that Australia was trying to ban R134a because of its toxic
> elements. Has that been done now?
>
> Emery Stora
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132500 is a reply to message #132498] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 19:08 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Last time I was in Las Vegas, I flew in and took a cab from the Airport to
the Venitian Hotel where I was staying. There were about a jillion taxi cabs
there, most of them Ford crown vics or Lincoln Town cars. They all were
converted to run on Propane and were all subject to routine security
inspections by the bomb squad anti terrorist officers. They didn't seem too
concerned about the tank of propane installed through the trunk floor. I
guess they weren't too concerned about it going KaBoom in their parking
structure. I wasn't either.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Howard,
>
> Almost every taxi here in Sydney has a large LPG tank in the trunk sitting
> up against the back seat and quite a few of the busses have the LPG tanks
> on
> the roof.
>
> How about this:
>
> http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/hydrogen-filling-station-irvine-ca.htm
>
> I reckon an LPG tank exploding would be a ka boom!, whereas a hydrogen tank
> exploding would be a KA BOOM!!!!!
>
> Disclaimer: no research was done regarding hydrogen or LPG explosions it is
> merely sheer speculation pulled out from an area of my body that never sees
> the sun!
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard and Sue
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 9:37 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC
>
> Rob
> How about this.
> San Diego transit has buses running on natural gas with large tanks on the
> top of the bus.
> And we have folks upset about R-12a?
> Talk about KA Boom!!!
> Howard
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132506 is a reply to message #132475] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 19:43 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I would think it would be easier to get the flamable refigerant OKed in the motor vehicle type R12 system where the compressor is belt driven. In the home type (and rooftop) R22 units, aren't the motors bathed in the refrigerant and oil. IE electrical windings bathed in propane. Granted the oil is flamable anyway, but I don't understand the logic. As far as flamability.... basicly anything is flamable. It all depends on what the temperature is and how much energy is put into the system. But at some point, everything will burn.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132507 is a reply to message #132506] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 19:46 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Like the fumes in the gas tank - no oxygen, no burn.
--johnny
--- On Wed, 6/29/11, John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com> wrote:
From: John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 12:43 AM
I would think it would be easier to get the flamable refigerant OKed in the motor vehicle type R12 system where the compressor is belt driven. In the home type (and rooftop) R22 units, aren't the motors bathed in the refrigerant and oil. IE electrical windings bathed in propane. Granted the oil is flamable anyway, but I don't understand the logic. As far as flamability.... basicly anything is flamable. It all depends on what the temperature is and how much energy is put into the system. But at some point, everything will burn.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132547 is a reply to message #132510] |
Tue, 28 June 2011 22:26 |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 0
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You can buy ES-22a in smaller cans. I broke a line when getting rid of mud daubers from the fan. I purchased several small cans of ES-22a and charged it. I think I over charged it slightly but it cools just as good if not better than before. I also run duracool in my dash unit which works much better now that I have a positive shut off for the heater.
Check out this site: http://autorefrigerants.com/22a.htm
Art & Doris
76 EL
On Jun 28, 2011, at 7:53 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> John
>
> You need oxygen for and cbustion to occur and that includes explosions.
>
> The house type air conditioners and roof air conditions and
> refrigerators (some new ones now use hydrocarbon refrigerants) all
> have the motor and compressor sealed inside a welded containment
> vessel ( the black tank that you see when you remove the cover from
> your air conditioner).
>
> There isno oxygen inside it and no hoses or shaft seals to leak.
>
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Jun 28, 2011, at 6:43 PM, "John R. Lebetski" <gransport@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I would think it would be easier to get the flamable refigerant OKed
>> in the motor vehicle type R12 system where the compressor is belt
>> driven. In the home type (and rooftop) R22 units, aren't the motors
>> bathed in the refrigerant and oil. IE electrical windings bathed in
>> propane. Granted the oil is flamable anyway, but I don't understand
>> the logic. As far as flamability.... basicly anything is flamable.
>> It all depends on what the temperature is and how much energy is put
>> into the system. But at some point, everything will burn.
>> --
>> John Lebetski
>> Chicago, IL
>> 77 Eleganza II
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132553 is a reply to message #132547] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 00:28 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Durcool R-22 replacement use to be available in 8 oz cans. I picked up a coupleof cans by mistake off of the shelf at the local Duracool store. I ran around with them for about 3 months before I got back there to return at them. I just checked Duracool.com and they show the R-22 stuff as still available in 8oz. cans. I have never used the R-22 Duracool replacement but based on the performance of the R-12 replacement, I would not hesitate to try it.
I was told recently that real R-22 is no longer available in the US as of Jan 1, 2011, so if I ever need any I will be off to the Duracool store for their substitute product.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132559 is a reply to message #132553] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 01:16 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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It's a good time to be alive.
Straying a bit off topic, and more social than I usually go here, but Ken's post about R-22 no longer being available made me think about all the scare-stories we heard when freon was to be banned, well, actually anything. Here we are so many years later with things that are better in just about every way. My daughter uses hair spray just as my sisters did when I was a kid. The air conditioning in my modern cars is better than, well, we never had air conditioning when I was a kid, but you get my drift.
There is a podcast I love from the University of Houston called the "Engines Of Our Ingenuity," generally hosted by John Lienhard. Their opening line is, ...about the machines that make our civilization run and the people whose ingenuity created them." At the end of the podcast they always sign off "...where we're interested in the way inventive minds work." They celebrate the creativity of the human animal and how we constantly try to improve our condition.
Just to look at the front bearings of our coaches you can't help but think of the different fellows who have tried to improve the service tools, the ability to grease, even it's very structure. R-12 was a replacement for ammonia, I think. So it goes. We constantly evolve and make things a bit better. It's true that we can sometimes long for simpler times, but that's really just the filter of time at work. Time is a fantastic editor whose job it is to make us forget so many details that we're left with impressions of the past.
My Palm Beach love affair began at the San Francisco Sports and Boat Show in January of 1976 (I think). There I saw the highest tech thing on 6 wheels and I was smitten. All these years later I'm still in love. A special group of people designed and built these coaches, never knowing that we'd be here tonight still ooogling over them. Somebody here said they wanted to keep the coach for 40 years. I'm guessing they'll be able to do it, too!
Yes, it's a good time to be alive.
Larry Davick
The (beautiful) Mystery Machine
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132568 is a reply to message #132559] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 02:59 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I see that someone else thinks that a GMC is as "sexy as a redhead on
saturday night" too.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Larry Davick <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> It's a good time to be alive.
>
> Straying a bit off topic, and more social than I usually go here, but Ken's
> post about R-22 no longer being available made me think about all the
> scare-stories we heard when freon was to be banned, well, actually anything.
> Here we are so many years later with things that are better in just about
> every way. My daughter uses hair spray just as my sisters did when I was a
> kid. The air conditioning in my modern cars is better than, well, we never
> had air conditioning when I was a kid, but you get my drift.
>
> There is a podcast I love from the University of Houston called the
> "Engines Of Our Ingenuity," generally hosted by John Lienhard. Their
> opening line is, ...about the machines that make our civilization run and
> the people whose ingenuity created them." At the end of the podcast they
> always sign off "...where we're interested in the way inventive minds work."
> They celebrate the creativity of the human animal and how we constantly try
> to improve our condition.
>
> Just to look at the front bearings of our coaches you can't help but think
> of the different fellows who have tried to improve the service tools, the
> ability to grease, even it's very structure. R-12 was a replacement for
> ammonia, I think. So it goes. We constantly evolve and make things a bit
> better. It's true that we can sometimes long for simpler times, but that's
> really just the filter of time at work. Time is a fantastic editor whose
> job it is to make us forget so many details that we're left with impressions
> of the past.
>
> My Palm Beach love affair began at the San Francisco Sports and Boat Show
> in January of 1976 (I think). There I saw the highest tech thing on 6
> wheels and I was smitten. All these years later I'm still in love. A
> special group of people designed and built these coaches, never knowing that
> we'd be here tonight still ooogling over them. Somebody here said they
> wanted to keep the coach for 40 years. I'm guessing they'll be able to do
> it, too!
>
> Yes, it's a good time to be alive.
>
> Larry Davick
> The (beautiful) Mystery Machine
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132632 is a reply to message #132486] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 15:51 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rodney, thanks for the offer but I see there's a distributor here in Portland and they have she small cans of 22a (for $10.00). Think I'll give it a try.
Glenn
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #132633 is a reply to message #132486] |
Wed, 29 June 2011 15:52 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676
Registered: August 2009
Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Here's a line from the website of the local Dura Cool website:
"Auto ignition of 1635°F is ACTUALLY a higher auto ignition than R134a which is 1328°F".
Glenn
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #134052 is a reply to message #132632] |
Sun, 10 July 2011 14:48 |
Rodney Hamilton
Messages: 24
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I finally decided to try this out as my roof a/c never cooled much since ownership of my PB (since 2004).
Took off the shroud and found that the unit had a clamp on service port on the suction line. Vac'd the unit for an hour, broke the vac with R22a (a.k.a. R290) then vac'd again for another hour.
Charged the unit with 12-14 oz, pressure settles down to 29-30 lbs on the R22 scale of the gage.
The unit can really chill the PB, outside is 86F and in the sun... why did I wait to do this???
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=39766&title=service-port&cat=5816
| Glenn Giere wrote on Wed, 29 June 2011 16:51 |
Rodney, thanks for the offer but I see there's a distributor here in Portland and they have she small cans of 22a (for $10.00). Think I'll give it a try. Glenn
|
Rodney Hamilton
Late 76 PB, 455
Montreal Canada
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| Re: [GMCnet] Duracool in rooftop AC [message #134055 is a reply to message #134052] |
Sun, 10 July 2011 14:55 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Rod
With the unit turned off soap up that piercing valve real good and see if it leaks. In my experience they almost always leak after a short time.
Roy
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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